She Runs, But sputtering se-fla

[prometheus578]

"Gas leaks from your vent hole" (Complained my EX-wife)

would the float not sealing cause the fuel to pour out the vent hole? fuel streams out 2 seconds from when I turn on prime.

Yes. As the bowl fills, the float rises. The rising float pushes the needle up into the seat, sealing the hole there. The needle seals the hole, the float just moves the needle. Floats with holes don't fill with gas each time. They fill with fuel and stay filled. No.. not fill with fuel, but get an amount of fuel in them. This extra weight changes the bouyancy of the float. It will not float as high in the fuel as it should, thus more fuel in the bowl is required to "lift" it to the closed position. This extra fuel could be what is overflowing out the jet. Another possability, which I've encountered, is that the float could be sticking to the sides of the bowl, or the underside of the carbs. With the bowls off, hold the carbs right side up and move the float around. See if it's able to rub against anything. Also... see if the floats in the offending carbs hang lower than the ones that don't leak. I've seen some that hang too low, giving a longer, angled upward throw to the needle. This sometimes causes the needle to cant sideways and jam on the seat walls.

[GNEPIG]

.. to check the floats
take the floats off of your carbs, hold one of them up to your ear and shake it, you will hear if it has gas in it. you can also tell by comparing how much they each weigh. there is a trick that involves a pot of boiling water, but i have never tried it
..hope this helps

[prometheus578]

Viking500, Ok, you've got a '79SF. Just the needle and seat from K+L Supply, dealer cost is $19.70. What the dealer will add onto that for his profit, who knows.
Now... ordered through Parts Unlimited... you get a whole carb rebuild kit(needle and seat included) for $19.95. For a '79 XS1100 SF, the part number should be 18-2581. #19.95 should be what the dealer charges you, his profit is already included. These still are K+L kits, just sold by someone else. K+L sells them themselves, but I can't tell you what the dealer mark-up would be. Double check my parts numbers, as I'm rather irresponsible.
I'd go with the kit.. new jets, bowl gasket, etc. Use your old pilot jets if the new ones are different, I say.

[Bauer]

Love the look of that bike, ive got an 80 special with the New Ruby Red on it and its an eye catcher, the red seems to do the trick on these bikes IMO.

What bars are those, obviously not the stock handlebars, im guessing Superbike bars?

I recently bought myself a set of the superbike bars, I cant wait for them to get here, even though the damn cold has the bike parked for a few more months haha.

Ive also got the same exhaust as you, only have my tips turned down. How does it sound with them out like that. Im still in the experimenting mode with this thing.

[Viking500usa]

Thanks to everyone for the help, I left the float bowls with fuel over night. today I checked them, the offending floats had no fuel inside when shaken. But still I replaced them with extras from spare carbs. I also took the known bad float assy's (# 2 & 4) and switched with the good ones (#1&3). I havent had time to test it yet, but I recall using compressed air (about 5-10lbs) and blowing out the float area, I also blew out the stem in the float area, and on # 2 &4 I could hear something. sounded like the rubber on the carb slide diaphram. when on 1 & 3 did not. I did it again to make sure. I hear that rubber inside there flexing with the light air pressure. If 1&3 dont do it, then I did somethin wrong in carb reassembly.
I will test tomorrow and go from there.
thanks, Don

[Viking500usa]

carb diagram

here we go !

[IMG][/IMG]
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...0usa/carbs.jpg

[Viking500usa]

Hello everyone,
I tested the carbs today, and slim difference. gas still streaming from vent on #4 , but reduced the leak volume on #2. switching the floats didnt do anything but sorta prove its not realy a float problem. if the carb slide diaphram was set wrong, would it cause this leak? Also had a thought to tie some mechanics wire to the float, run it through the drain at the bottom with a rag in the hole, (to stop most of the gas)during test. lets see if I can manually close the float and see if that stops the fuel.
more work needed...
Don 79sf

[prometheus578]

if the carb slide diaphram was set wrong, would it cause this leak?

Nope, not related at all.

lets see if I can manually close the float and see if that stops the fuel.

And if it does... what does that mean? You have no way to regulate or observe the fuel level. And a needle that leaks on it's own, will stop leaking if enough pressure is applied to it. Several things will cause a carb to leak. #1 is a bad needle and seat seal. Other things are... fuel leaking around the seat where it mates to the carb, Floats not free to pivot on the float pin, Floats sticking on the bowl or carb walls, bowl vent is plugged, Floats have fuel in them and are abnormally heavy, etc.

OK, I've just reread all the posts here and learned a few things. It's funny, tragic really, but I thought I was dealing with two people's carb probs. Dummy me... Viking500 and Don79sf are the same people. How embarrasing.
Anyway... let's see... VikingDon has a needle who's spring tip doesn't retract all the way... and he's still using it. WRONG.
Also has needles with rings on them that he's used sandpaper to smooth out. WRONG. Ran a drill bit backwards in the seat WRONG (just my opinion)
Now, to clarify... I'm not an authority figure, I'm not in charge of anything(except myself, and even then...?), I'm no one's father here, so I'm not in a position to tell other's what to do. (Or to spend their money for them) My typing WRONG just means that whatever was tried didn't work. I'm afraid that the mindset has taken hold that... "Hhmm.. the first remedy didn't stop the fuel... it must leaking for another reason other than that." No... the first remedy didn't work because it was flawed. It is still leaking because of the first remedy. Confused?
The number on reason again is bad needle and seat mating surface. This is a VERY precise seal. There is no rubber gasket or sealing O-ring involved. It is an extremely smooth tapered tip going into an extremely smooth round hole. Metal to metal contact. Metal so smooth and flawless that it has to mate perfectly. Small pieces of grit from the fuel, so small that a filter won't catch them, over time cause a "wear ring" on the needle. It is no longer a smooth surface. It may not leak, as a corresponding ring has been worn into the seat. Remove the needle to clean the carbs and put it back in not in the original orientation, say 10 degrees rotationally off, and the wear patterns no longer match, and she'll leak. If we don't have a particlular needle in stock and the ring isn't too bad, I can "sometimes" polish them out, spinning them in a rag with chrome polish. Sandpaper, regardless of the grade, is too rough, and will not leave the required smooth finish. Gas is extremely thin, and these fuel seals have a close tolerance. A mediocre seal will stop water flow, but gas will pour right past.
As for seats... they seem to be a soft, brass compound. The needle is harder, so the seat will, for a while, conform to whatever shape the needle is in until it gets too extreme. Had a leaky carb that was caused by the wing of a fly wedged between the needle and the seat. I had to put in a new seat, as the constant pressure of the needle against the wing put a small crease in the seat that I couldn't polish out. Seats, if they're still usable, can be polished with a Q tip and some chrome polish. If one goes in there with a dental tool to try to scrap crap out and puts a small nick in the area of the sealing hole, kiss it good bye. Again, I cannot vouch for, nor condemn, the drill bit method, but it seems to me that when the bit stops and is removed, the place that it stopped at will have a ridge that the rest of the hole doesn't have. Sometimes this may work, other times, not. Just my opinion.
I'm not "Mr. Carburator", and I don't have all the answers, but during the summer months at work, if I don't clean a bank of plugged or leaking carbs a day, then it's every other day. I may do a hundred or so a year(Not counting tinkering on my own!) These are just my experiences and observations, nothing more.
I have great respect for anyone who doesn't turn a wrench for a living who shows the patience and balls to handle carb repair by themselves. Doing carb work is the true mark of a man... and should be included in the Buddha's 'Four Noble Truths to Enlightenment". But one must also be mindful of the Zen concept of 'Shabui"... knowing when to stop.
Viking/Don... You've been at this for too long, now. The carb needle with the tip that doesn't retract all the way.... it may seal, but the float level characteristics of that carb will be different from the others. Toss it.
The other needles; wear-rings, sandpapered, etc... toss them.
The seats that were drilled... toss them.
All these items are now suspect! You could end up chasing your tail for days looking for other causes and still leak.
(Here's the part where I spend your money!) Go to any dealer and get four new needles. Should be about $4.95 per. Polish the seats, put in the needles and set the float height. Upsidedown and rightsideup leak test. Still leak? New seats.
In the odd event that they STILL leak... we shall take other avenues of approach to the problem. But we are now starting clean from a firmer foundation.


I apologize if my manner in this, or any other post, appears gruff or unsympathetic. And I understand that $20 for carb needles is still $20, which has to come out of the household budget somewhere. But it's frustrating to watch a man labor at a task and not get any tangible results.

(Forward all requests for my Humanitarian Award to the Nobel Foundation and Institute; Stockholm, Sweden. ATTN: Swen)

[GNEPIG]

Kurt
.. we have two job openings where i work, one for a tech and one for a service writer..

Viking Don
.. i have an idea, throw your carbs in a box and mail them to prometheus and let him repair and adjust them for you, you will not be disapointed what ever the cost

[Ken Talbot]

Originally posted by GNEPIG
Kurt
.. we have two job openings where i work, one for a tech and one for a service writer..

He can wrench, and he can damsure 'write' too, eh?...

[Viking500usa]

Prom, you hurt me... lol
But I dont think you'd steer me wrong, youve been a great help.
and I believe your right on all accounts !

on the manually closing the seat. that would tell me in fact if its operating correctly.
the needle springs, weird as it was, would only depress about 3/4 way. on all of them, uniformly. the new needles all depressed fully into itself. I feel if you sand the needle tip, use 1600 grit or higher. or the polish. and taking the drill bit to the seat is a poor mans way of trying to get it to work. =) ive got new now. lucky for me, I have spare carbs I can get parts off of. Used, and they're like new. just a lil dusty.
B4 I bought the parts carbs, I broke down and bought the brass fuel T fittings with the o-rings. way over priced. but I didnt have to worry about those anymore. I replaced all the fuel tubing to clear/yellow, cheap from home d'pot.
I had to carefully inspect (from outside the box) what the hell is goin on here. as many times as I've pulled the carbs off the bike, broken them down for cleaning and the floats, etc... it was staring me right in the face... like a stick-bug, just blending right in...
I got those bloody fuel and air T's mixed up when I cleaned the carbs. the fuel T has a longer profile than the air vent T, I was using the longer one which kept pushing against the inside carb wall. no ventilation ! funny human trick...

my carbs arent leaking anymore =)

thanks alot to all who helped, Prom dont worry about the hurt me part.
Don79sf Viking500usa

[Ken Talbot]

Well now, that's excellent news, even if it took 5 screens full of posts to finally get to the solution. Because of everything you've experienced and had to try to get there, I'd say this pretty much makes you our newest carb guru!

[prometheus578]

"Thank you, for all the cards and letters"

we have two job openings where i work, one for a tech and one for a service writer

"...neither of which you qualify for, you pompus ass!" (...puts words in Gnepig's mouth)
Sorry... but as a registered "XS offender", I'm not allowed to leave the state.
And why would I want to move to "Hurricane Alley" when I'm perfectly safe here, snuggled between the "Volcanic Sisters", Mt. Rainier and Mt. St Helens?

Oh, and thanks, GNEPIG... offerring my services for me, huh? Like you're some big time pimp daddy and I'm a brazen, young hussy. Where did you get the impression that I'm some kind of nice guy? Sure, the first thing I do when I wake up is to put a big smile on my face, but that's just so I don't have to do it for the rest of the day. I'm mean as a snake and twice as twisted!

("Oh, that Prom... ever since he was beaten up in grade school and had his lunch money stolen, he's gone through life trying to act big and tough. He's just like a snail; hard defensive shell, but if you step on him, he's really soft and squishy inside")

"If you act now... we're prepared to give you this one time, free offer..."
VikingDon... Time to put "Your" money where "My" mouth is. Box 'em up and just cover shipping both ways. One day turn-around (provided I don't have to order parts and work stays slow)
(I'm curious to see if I really know what I'm babbling about)
PM me for details.

[GNEPIG]

I'd say this pretty much makes you our newest carb guru!

.. i say we make him Vise President of the web site

congrats on finding a solution Don

[prometheus578]

"Typing as fast as I can!!!!!!!

No... Lies, all lies! Someone else was using my name and password! I never offered to fix anyones carbs for them! I never offered to do any work for free! An imposter.... an upstart! I wasn't even home tonight and my computer's broken! My dogs bit the mailman and I can no longer get things delivered to me.... and on and on!
(Geez... that was a close one!)