Transmission question

[Bigfoot]

I have an xj 11 with a first gear problem. It sounds like a machine gun in first gear. I am getting ready to tear it apart and am wondering at what point are things too far gone to do the dremel repair?

Also, is the tranny the same for the xs's and xj's? There is a used but good (according to the seller) transmission I think from a 79 xs. If the price is right would it be better to replace than repair? Should I do the dremel repair on the new gears as a preventative measure?

I would appreciate any advice here. Thanks

[strom]

My third gear does that. Not all the time, just bursts. I stay off the 3rd for now, gotta clear out the garage first. Will report, but might take a while.

LP

[John]

The transmissions are all the same from an xs to an xj.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Bigfoot,

I've done the 1st gear repair on 3 bikes, my 81SH and 2 other XJ's, seems like the later year models wore out 1st before 2nd, but both get lots of wear. My 2nd gear went out a few months after my 1st.

That "other" old tranny is still old, and built essentially the same way with the same styled gears, and will develop the same problem over time. Depends on how much $$ you want to spend as to whether you want to get NEW gears from Yamaha, vs. Dremmeling your old ones? I would treat 2nd as well as 1st since you're in there!

One of the Xj's I worked on had so much wear that like you said, a machine gun with anything more than idle throttle applied to it! I actually used the "cutoff" disc and removed over 1mm of the end of the dogs on a 2nd gear to get rid of the rounded off corner! These gears are very over engineered as to strength.

First gear is a bit more of a pain due to them being SOLID, not slotted, and the mating surfaces are square cut not oval, so it's a bit tougher to grind a FLAT and slightly undercut angle to those gears, but with a small grinding stone like those for sharpening chainsaws, I was able to get in there to grind enough surface to get good contact and undercutting angles!

You might see about finding a machine shop that might be able to do a better and more precise job than the DREMMEL? However, mine has held for 5 years now! Check out the tech tips for diagrams on grinding and such!
T.C.

[Bigfoot]

Thanks for the replies. I am heading out to the garage to tear it down now and see how it looks inside.

[Jerry]

A quick related note....

The XS and XJ transmissions are the same with a couple minor things to check.

The XJ "strainer cover" (oil pan) has an oil level sensor in it that the XS does not have. The pans are, as far as I know, interchangeable, but you will want to use the XJ pan if you want to keep the sensor.

Early XS11s had the kick starter in place, the XJ does not. Again, all this means is that you will probably not use these parts in your XJ unless you want to add the kick start. If you don't want them, keep all the parts/pieces totherther and it is likely another XSive may want them.

All gaskets are the same, as are the gears, forks, and other internals.

There is a washer along the 2nd gear that is no longer available from Yamaha. One of the transmission mods is to move this washer to the other side of the gear, which increases the engagement. The concern is that the gear then could rub on a circlip. A few of us have had the gear face cut the same thickness as the washer, about .040, and added a 2nd washer between the gear and the clip. The gives the increased engagement without the possibility of circlip wear. You can't do this without the washer from a scrapped tranny, so don't loose that washer; someone will want it if you don't use it.

[Bigfoot]

Here is an update. I tore everything down and removed the countershaft. The dogs on 4th? that mesh with first gear were a little rounded off but didn't seem that bad. Completed the dremel fix and put the bike back together. Major pain getting the countershaft back finally got it. Put the bike back together and started it up. I noticed it making an intermitten noise from the clutch. The transmission seemed to positively go into first but would kill the engine as soon as I shifted in gear with the clutch in. I am thinking I have something installed wrong in the clutch and am going to pull it back apart tomorrow. Any ideas on what I should check would be greatly appreciated.

[Winterhawk]

Hi Bigfoot.
I think you might have the side stand down. Or the side stand switch and or wiring is the culprit here. You can bypass it but I keep the ones on my bikes on.

The transmission won't fit unless it's right. What kinda problem with the countershaft? My clutch is noisy also. I wouldn't tear it apart just yet.

Fix the side stand relay, switch or clutch lever switch or whatever the problem is. That's what is killing your engine.

[Bigfoot]

The sidestand was down and the bike is on the centerstand. I didn't realize that that would kill the engine. I have already emptied the oil and taken the side cover off. The oil pan gasket was leaking anyway so it is a good time to fix that also. Thanks for the tip. I will give it a shot with the sidestand up.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Bigfoot,

While you were in there, did you clean up 2nd/5th dogs and slots?! Also, hopefully you kept the thrust washers in their proper place. And that you spun the basket as you pressed it onto the shaft to ensure the gears meshed with the oil pump gears and such, it's on the end of the shaft fork shaft. One Xsive bent his, and had some problems.

Also, you need to be careful not to rotate the throw out lever very far prior to mounting the case cover. The ball bearings can come out and then you can have uneven pressure when trying to actuate it! Hope you read the tips about the Star Plate installation process? Hope you find everything alright!
T.C.

[Bigfoot]

Topcat,

Yes, I did undercut the 2nd/5th slightly but not too much as they looked almost perfect. I checked everything out in the clutch and I am sure I had it installed correctly in the first place. I am not sure what the noise I was hearing was. I am now thinking it might have been the exhaust pipes because I don't think they have any gaskets installed. ??? I put everything back together and tried it again. Seems to be working now that I have the kickstand up. I haven't ridden the bike yet because I haven't gotten to the brakes yet, just tested it with the bike on the centerstand. I have been reading every tip and thread for each part that I try to fix in this site. It is great to have such a resource. I think I might be in over my head if not for this site. Does anyone know where I can buy a rebuild kits for the carbs for the xj11. I have found some for the xs11 but am not sure if they are compatible. I want to clean out the carbs but would like to replace the gaskets and float valves while I have them apart.

[TopCatGr58]

Bigfoot,

The gaskets and float needle seats and valves are the same for the XJ as the later model 80-81 carbs....the ones that press in and have the viton tipped needles! Many sources, from Partsnmore, Bikebandit, and MikesXS! You can source the rubber O-ring for the press in seats so IF yours aren't badly corroded, you can probably just clean them and put them back in with new Orings!

You'll be glad you worked on 2nd as well!! When you do get it running, you'll find that it may be a little stiff shifting into and out of 1st, but after some riding, the gears will wear a little and it'll shift easier! And you won't have any STUTTERING in 1st!!!
Glad you've found this site helpful...that's what it's here for!!
T.C.

[Bigfoot]

Thanks, that is great news on the carb kits, have been searching the web for a couple days now. The other thing I have been looking for is brake caliper rebuild kits. Will the xs caliper kits work?

[TopCatGr58]

I remember doing some research on this, and found that on Partsnmore, they listed the same part # for the O-ring kits for the XS11 as for the XJ, even though the pistons are differently shaped, they apparently used the same sized O-ring and groove.

However, you may not need to replace them. After removing them carefully, cleaning them with soap and water, or Dawn to degrease them, just don't use carb or brake parts cleaner or any oil based product. Then coat them in clean brake fluid, and put them back in. As long as they have good square corners and aren't torn, etc., they can be reused. Also be careful removing the "C" clip that keeps the dust cover on so you don't tear a hole in the cover!
T.C.

[strom]

OK... it's official. My 3rd gear sounds like a machine gun and I shift past it. Once today I lost count and it ratteled again. Now when in 5th gear, my bike jerks slightly. I hope I won't need a new tranny.
Anyway, I still have to get that damn guzzi on the road so I have some space to work on my XS. Damn.

Is it better to pull the engine if I want to remove the complete transmission, or is it easier to keep it in the bike?

LP

PS: I have to replace the tripple trees and the swingarm w. rear brake anyway.