What's rattlin in my crankcase?

[LoserShoes]

In the later Clymer manuals there is an appendix at the end of the manual with the changes for '80 and later. They don't really amount to a lot.

Steve

[fbcaf]

I now know more about taking it apart!

As of 3 pm CDT I finally have the countershaft out of the bike. I struggled with the shaft for awhile before taking off the oil pump because it didn't seem to be in the way. After removing it, and a few minor wiggles, it fell right out, as I was saying, "This is never going to come out." Anyway, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the thing that I can find. EVerything looks almost new. The ONLY thing that may be a problem is the gear between the oil pump and the clutch - the one on the end of the fork shaft. At some time, it looks as if someone tapped it with a hammer to try to seat the fork shaft. It is slightly bent for about 1/2 inch of its diameter. There is a little wear to the teeth where they didn't mesh right, but it doesn't seem to be a problem now. We did not see this before because there is no (longer) binding of the gears. everything meshes and works properly. If this is recent with the last repair shop visit, that may account for the rattling noise for a few moments. That is ALL that I can see that looks suspect. Is this something that I need to try to replace? Could this be a source of any of the vibrations or noises I have experienced?

Since everything is apart, is there something else I need to investigate while I'm in there. I am fairly anxious to get it back together and on the road, but don't want to overlook anything. As always, I am thankful to all you guys who contribute to the knowledge shared on this site. It is quite remarkable, that you've gotten me this far - not just with this thread, but with the tech tips and other infor published here- but I realize I'm only about halfway home. To paraphrase: "Hey guys, I'm a preaher, not a mechanic." So, if it ever runs again, you get most of the credit. I'm going to give the wise guys time to mentor grasshopper before I start putting parts back in again - maybe Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks again.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Pastor Sam,

I wouldn't put that "bent" gear back in, try to get a replacement from the folks here on the list with spare engines! That gear provides the action for the pump, and you don't want it failing!!

Also, I concur with Gnepig, put the washer/spacer back in it's original position, cause WITHOUT the other spacer on the other side, the gear will rub against the raw C-clip. After doing the 2nd gear repair on 3 bikes, they all worked well without shifting the position of the washer!

The shift fork shaft has that little area cut out of it to allow the positioning of the Primary driven gear IIRC, next to 1st gear, so be sure to position it, or the gears and the countershaft won't want to go back in!!
T.C.

[fbcaf]

Thanks for the Advice

T.C. and others,
Thanks for the advice on getting it back together. I really struggled getting the countershaft out, and I hope it goes back in more easily. I am getting a replacement gear to drive the oil pump, but I still don't see any reason for the bike to go into a gear and stall out like it did. I don't see any evidence of it either. I don't uppose that bent idler gear could have caused that, could it??? I almost hate to put it back together without finding something definitive. I am also wondering about getting a new gasket for the side where the clutch is. The mechanic apparently took the almost new one off and didn't put anything back on when he gave it back to me except a scant bead of blue silicone. I don't know where to get a single gasket. The others seem to be in good condition.

[randy]

Sam,

Bike Bandit has the gasket:

14: GASKET, CRCS COVER 22640-001 $11.38

Bike Bandit

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Pastor Sam,

GO to your local auto parts store, buy a roll of gasket material for $3.00, black or green, and draw the case outline with a pen. Take a rubber mallet and tap it against the inside to mark the inner edge, some folks recommended a little film of oil on cover will mark gasket better, but I think it would make sealing it harder..sealant doesn't stick to gasket with oil on/in it. Use a single hole punch to cut the bolt holes. Use scissors or exacto knife to cut it out! Takes a little time, but well worth $$ you can save!

The bent idler gear is mounted on the end of the shift fork shaft, possibly causing vibrations or rotations that could have jostled the shift fork to push it into a gear!?

BTW, have you read the Dremmel Fix tech tips? The tranny should be in 4th gear to fascilitate the removal/installation of the countershaft and gears!
T.C.

[fbcaf]

Hey guys,
I still haven't made it back out to start reassembly yet. I've got a gear coming from Andreas, and I'll get some gasket material at the parts store. Do I need any gasket goop to put things together? Some say yes, others no. What say ye?

I have read the tech pages on everything I could find on tranmissions, including the Dremmel fix. I started right after I got the bike last fall, and realized I had a second gear problem. I was tempted to do the fix on mine, but opted to have someone who knew what they were doing repair it with new parts instead. You know what they say about hindsight! Just because I read it, doesn't mean I understand it, although I have committed to giving it my best shot. I suppose that this is one of those risky areas for me, where faith kicks in.

I have also put the spacer back in its original position. I can't believe that it would make that much difference, unless you were always popping the clutch in 2nd. I actually prefer "roll-on power" myself.
Thanks for the encouragement,
Sam

[randy]

Sam,

The best 'gasket goop' I've found is Permatex Aviation Grade gasket cement. Stays pliable and seals perfect. I use it on valve covers and never had a leak. Hey, if it's good enough for airplanes....

For other covers, like clutch and shift sides, I use 'The Right Stuff' gasket maker without paper gaskets. It's liquid rubber in a can, like ready-whip. Same stuff GM uses on it's engines.

Both of these are available at most good auto parts stores, like NAPA or Pep Boys.

[fbcaf]

Secret Words!

Who knows the secret words you have to say to get the countershaft back in? I worked all afternoon to get it back in, but couldn't quite make it. I also don't understand wher to place the shift forks so they are accessible when the transmission is reinsertd. Right now they are sort of on top of the shift drum, behind the fork shaft, except for #2 which is on the shaft engaged on the upper gear. My hands are like hams, and I can't imagine being able to position those if I ever get the counter shaft in. The fork shaft is fully inserted so the notch is where it should be. The shifter is in 4th gear - I think. Is there some way to tell for sure? It is where it was when the shaft came out.

I struggled to get it out, and then, all of a sudden, it just came free. I kept thinking the same thing might happen today, but it didn't. By the way, I am trying this alone, with the bike on the centerstand on a concrete floor. I promised myself about 6 surgeries ago that I would never crawl on a concrete floor underneath a vehicle again. So much for that! I just need the secret words or the magic formula. Bear in mind that I AM a pastor. I refuse to give up, and leave this mess in a friend's garage. And thanks for all the help so far. I know that you all will come through.

[Ken Talbot]

Have you checked out the reassembly secret and the reassembly secret part 2 ?

[fbcaf]

I have now. There is alot more info on this site than meets the eye. I am semi-illiterate when it comes to computers, and almost completely so when it comes to wrenching on a bike. The search engine doesn't show much when the "look-up" is "doodad" or "thing-a-ma-jig." Anyway, I will try this out. I think I was almost there yesterday, moving those gears to the right, but there seemed to be a hangup somewhere. I thought I had it once, but couldn't get the shaft to slide back into that last gear. I guess I never had it straight enough to allow it to slide. I will try some more to day. Thanks for the "secrets."

[fbcaf]

Back on the Road

It would be great if all the threads ended like this one. After a day of frustration trying to re-install the countershaft, I read the secret clues from Ken Talbot's site. They reaffirmed what I thought should be happening, so Saturday, I went out to try it again - this time I would not take "no" for an answer. Within five minutes, the shaft slipped right in. The only thing I did different was to approach the project from the right (clutch) side of the bike, rather than the left side. This allowed me to see when the shaft slipped all the way up, and also allowed me to pul it into place rather than trying to push it. I still don't know how it worked, exactly, but just a little wiggle here and there.

My only real problem from there was the #3 shift fork, which just didn't want to cooperate. The reinstallation took me about five hours, and the bike runs great. I am still not sure what the problem was, since everything looked really good. The onlyt thing was that idler gear that pushes the oil pump. I did finall surmise that whoever had the clutch off last must have pinched it when they reinstalled. I almost did the same on the new one I put in, but realized the clutch had not seated properly. I can see where it would be easy to do. That could also have been the problem I had to begin with. I didn't notice the clutch being loose when I took it apart, but I had never done it before, so it may have been. At any rate, it now runs like new, although first gear still wants to clunk alot unless you are already moving.

I want to again thank everyone who contributed advice on this project, and Andreas Weiss for supplying the gear in good time. i couldn't have done this without the encouragement and information on this site. I am hoping I don't have to do it again for a long, long time.

Now it's time to ride!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Pastor Sam,

That's great, can we get a Halleluyah?

Now, you just have to remove that final line from your signature, and you'll be in "good graces" with the rest of this community!
T.C.

[don07tncav]

Me thinks he had that line there to scare the bike into running right again!!

Glad she's up and running!

[fbcaf]

Future @#$%^& Owner??????

Here's a "Hallelujah" for T.C. and all you guys. The defining moment had to do with a little prayer on my friend's part, and a little trusting on mine. God doesn't give us more than we can handle.

Took the wife and my Harley friends for ice cream after Church last night. We've got this little "roll-on throttle" race we do every once in a while at a stop sign. Well, we did this with the wife on the back for the first time. In about a quarter of a mile, we got to about 100 and backed it off, but my friend and his wife on their stroked heritage could not shake the old xs1100. We gave up about 200# in the jockey weight, and could have pressed it more, but I hate to abuse the machine. I have not yet threatened the red-line on this bike. I have to admit that, after riding the Harley for a couple of weeks, I did have a problem getting back on the xs11. I caught my foot on the seat and almost dumped myself and the bike in the driveway. There's about 6" difference in seat height. I also had trouble finding my pegs again, but all is well now.

I know this bike lives, and she has feelings, but I DID NOT threaten her with a Harley!!!!!!! If I ever get a @#$%^& it will be for the sake of opening ministry doors. I would NEVER give up my xs11 for a @#$%^&. Think about the difference between a @#$%^& OWNER and one who is OWNED by and XS Eleven!

Thanks again, Guys.