ethanol

[HobbyMan]

I know that a higher octane rating will not increase power unless you have a system designed for it, but using a chemical like toluene to increase your octane will in fact increase power on any system. It has a higher (BTU) energy rating than the gasoline and ethanol. So I can buy low octane gas for a cheaper price, raise the octane myself which will also increase mileage. This is what I want to try. If it is cost effective I will do this on my daily driving, besides that is where my fuel economy is the lowest anyway. On away trips, I will just use what is available to me. I am just looking right now to spend less money on gas and have a higher fuel economy. Hey, maby I will eventually seperate the two and sell bottled ethanol I don't have a license for that yet

[John]

Andrew

Why don't you just do the XS750 final drive mod? I'm getting ready to do it this coming week on my bike.

[81xsproject]

My question is, do the higher octane fuels at the pump have porportionally less alcohol?

[DiverRay]

Not always....
You need to read the pump. In California, it all MUST be displayed on the pump. If the rating is 87 or 91, the percent of alcohol may be the same, just the fuel has a higher octain rating.

[webbcraft2150]

When I was in NM, some of the fuel, even the high octane stuff, was of questionable quality, even the brand name stuff. My normal practice was to use the mid grade and add a predetermined amount of 104 or moroso octane booster to qwell the pinging. I also did this with my boat fuel since I fueled up at the land pumps. I did notice a difference with both rigs when I did not use the octane booster. Since moving to lower altitude, I have found I do not need it in either the bike, boat or truck. I always use the higher grade of fuels in the bike and the boat, even at this altitude. The bike calls for 91 octane, the boat needs 'cause I jacked the motor up a bit for MORE SPEED. I just figure its the price you pay for the games you play. Albuquerque also had a winter blend, there was a slight mileage drop with the winter fuels. I did not realize any problems with the bike using these blends and the octane booster. (BTW, Mercrusier was animate about not using alcohol laced fuels).

[HobbyMan]

I am actually considdering doing to the 750 drive mod sometime, but that would have to be on another bike that I plan to "experiment" on. I would still have to but the parts and right now, if I can end up paying less for gas and have more power, I would prefer to do that. Also, ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline. They can actually put gasoline with a lower octane rating in the pump because the 10% ethanol will raise the octane significantly. So you end up with more octane but less BTUs.
look at the btu chart

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by HobbyMan
I am actually considdering doing to the 750 drive mod sometime, but that would have to be on another bike that I plan to "experiment" on. I would still have to but the parts and right now, if I can end up paying less for gas and have more power, I would prefer to do that. Also, ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline. They can actually put gasoline with a lower octane rating in the pump because the 10% ethanol will raise the octane significantly. So you end up with more octane but less BTUs.
look at the btu chart

HUH? If that's true then add diesel. According to your "BTU" theorem diesel would do both.

Something else you must consider. The graph you are looking at is BTU per unit volume...in this case the unit is a U.S. gallon.

It takes quantity "X" of British Thermal Units (BTU) to get a job done. If it takes ...for instance 500 BTU to "git r dun" then it simply requires less gasoline than gasohol.

But...that is if ...and only if...your engine will efficiently utilize said fuel.

For instance diesel has much more energy (BTU) per unit volume than does gasoline. Thus in general a diesel engine of similar displacement and power will get better economy than it's gasoline counterpart.

But if you try to burn that high BTU fuel...straight diesel .... in a gasoline engine you won't get any increase in fuel economy because it won't run.

The second law of thermodynamics put simply...states: "There is no free lunch"

If you create some addtive that gives you a significant boost in fuel economy...I'm talking a verifiable 15 or 20% increase...then you will have found the goose that laid the golden egg.

Have fun little buddy and if you do figure something out please share it with all your XSive brothers.

[HobbyMan]

THe reason that I am using these two chemicals xylene and toluen is that some gas manufactures already use them in gas. Well last night I mixed some 114 octane xylene and toluene and put less than a half gallon to top off my tank. So far, I have noticed that I have more power under a load. If I start from a stop in lets say 3rd gear, I don't have that annoying shutter, but now a constant steady acceleration. This is just from having a higher octane rating. I do want to see if it will actually increase my mileage. I smart enough to know that I don't know everything, well even anything for that matter. I just want to really find out for myself it this really works or not. I am just using my amature chemistry skills to theorize if this will work or not. I am just using btu as something to stand for the amount of energy per volume. Gasoline with alcohol in it has less energy per volume because it has oxygen on its molecular structure. Toluene has strictly hydrocarbons and no oxygen. Putting a fuel that already has oxygen in it is unnecessary because that is what the carburator is for. By putting ethanol in you mix, you are reducing the amount of energy contained in the same amount of volume. By replacing some gasohol mix with some aeromatic hydrocarbons you increase the energy of the gasoline in your tank. This would have little to do with the octane rating. With the extra energy in the gas, either more heat will be produced or more mechnical energy would be released, probably both. I am not looking for like 15% to 20%, but just enough increase in fuel economy to recover some of what was lost when ethanol was added, and also to spend less for a better fuel to burn. I don't know that to expect, thus the experiment.

[John]

Sounds like rocket science to me. Or at least rocket fuel.

[Douglas Money]

You normally won't see much difference in gas mileage unless you advance the timing to account for the extra octane.

[HobbyMan]

Yeah, ohh well. I did get around 3-4 mpg increase, but I don't think it is worth it. It is a pain in the a** to mix up some stuff when I fill up. I think the best option would be to have a fuel injected 1100 with the 750 FD. Ohh well, another project to doo.

[chopwatchagot]

It seems to me that the whole arguement for increased fuel economy, i.e. gas milage is about money, is it not? If not, then why do we even care? If you are getting 35 miles per gallon then for every 100 miles you drive you are using 2.86 gallons of fuel.. If the gas costs 2.25 per gallon, then your cost is $6.43 per 100 miles or 6.43 cents per mile. If you increase your gas milage to 40 MPG, by whatever means, (additives, higher or lower octane gas, or the marvelous 750 FD swap) then you will use 2.5 gallons for the same 100 mile ride. At a cost of 2.25 per gallon you will now spend only $5.63 for fuel or 5.63 cents per mile saving you an incredible EIGHT TENTHS OF ONE CENT per mile! So if you drive your bike 10,000 miles per year you will pocket a whopping $80 a year in savings. If you want a more comfortable cruising RPM level the FD swap is a beautiful idea. If you want to save money, Buy your socks at Costco!

Just my 1/2 cent worth

Dean

[HobbyMan]

Well I do see your point. Even though it seems like a little, at the rate of miles that I drive every week, it all adds up. The best way to save money is to take your resources and make the best out of what you have at hand. If your bike isn't running properly or wasting fuel, you are wasting money. Evetually it would have been cost effective to continue this process, but the effort required(this cooming from a very lazy person) is just too much to continue. Well it was a cool experiment and I did learn a few things in the process. I guess that is all that matters. Now, on to the next idea. I am starting to research my homemade fuel injection method. There are DIY kits that you can buy, but I plan on actually desiging one myself and having a friend help me build it. Alond with a 750 FD, I will have an extreemly economical bike. So the moral of the story is, don't change the gass that you burn, but the way you burn it.

[Douglas Money]

Carburetor or Fuel Injection, both put fuel into the air fuel mix. As long as the ratio doen't change the mileage won't change. Fuel injection is not going to give you all that much more mileage than what you are currently getting If and I say IF, your bike is currently in tune. Good Luck.

[xschop]

necessity

It is the mother of all inventions. Let hobby experiment. Just a thought the toluene will keep the gas system/ carbs cleeeeeaaaannn. that's the main ingredient in seafoam, I'll put money on it...."alcohol" that is used in gas is ethanol, a 2 carbon molecule with an alcohol 'O-H' group. "octane" is an 8 carbon molecule that is more stable(more carbon bonds and won't explode as easily as ethanol. Adding ethanol does not increase octane.People associate octane with power. higher octane gas just has more percentage of the molucule for more efficient burning.....Find a way to better oxygenate the mix and you will have a winner...chop