ethanol

[tab1324]

I'm doing a bunch of cruising around Iowa in a week or so and I know that a lot of their fuel is Ethanol. Has anyone ever experienced a problem with this on their bikes? I've heard it can eat thru hoses / o-rings etc.. if the they're not made for it.

Tom

[Czekus21]

Ethanol; is a good thing for farmers and will not hurt newer vehcles. I will not run ethanol in small engines nor motorcycles. I run the highest octain unleaded available without ethanol. Mabee in a pinch to get me to someplace that 's got regular fuel.

[Hobbit]

Ethanol

Ethanol does have a tendency to damage materials that are not designed for it's use. It also has less power per gallon and can reduce fuel milage about 20%. Add to that the temperature related problems that can occur due to it's different boiling point, and I would try to avoid any high percentage ethanol fuels whenever possible.

[skids]

In Colorado, the clean air program causes a mixture of alcohols in the winter months, I think it is up to 12%. They used to mandate some percentage of MTBE (an ecologic distaser!) I have used gas/alcohol for a number of years in the xs11s. I does cause a loss in fuel effeciency to some degree. I'll probably never know what the loss is for sure because I start the bikes in the garage on occasion to move fuel through the carbs.

[Snow]

From my understanding, all high-test gaslone sold in the US has anhydrous ethanol in it - used to be called gasohol, but is just called premium unleaded now.

[2fast]

I have never had a problem so far. I am in Minnesota, and most of our fuel has an ethanol mix. I think the horror stories are mostly unfounded. Anybody got one that has some evidence?

[Bob Falter]

I have ran ethanol in my 79 XS11 for several years with no problems. Ethanol has a few less BTU’s per gallon but runs cooler, which let’s the engine take in more air, so it ends up with about the same power. I check my mileage on almost every tank and haven’t noticed any difference between it and regular gas. I get around 36 mpg which, from other threads, seems to be about average for the XS.

If your engine doesn’t knock or ping on the lower octane gas then you are wasting your money on the high octane stuff. It doesn’t provide any more power. Engines built for higher octane produce more power because the have a higher compression ratio. They also knock or ping on lower octane fuels, gas or ethanol.

[HobbyMan]

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but

I was doing some research on gasoline lately. I can say that it does in fact decrease fuel mileage. When I first started riding my Xs, there were still some stations that did not have ethanol. My mileage was sometimes in the low 50's and high 40's. Fear of the unknown kept me from buying ethatnol fuel for a while. Now it is all that there is available (that I have seen) and my mileage has dropped to the mid to lower 40's, sometimes even lower. In addition to having less BTUs, I read that because of its properties and similarities to water, it can corrode aluminum. Could it possibly damage the XS carbs? The fact that underneath my side cover it says clearly to use 91 octane leaded gas, I am temped to find an alternative fuel supply. If the ethanol was removed from gas, the octane would be lower, though this could be solved by finding a cheap distibuter of toulue or xylene. If it was cost effective, should I make my own gasoline? I wouldn't mind paying a few more $ per tank of gas if my mileage was higher. I perosonally think that it is all pollitical. THey want to create the illusion that they are making a difference. If the gov't really cared about the environment, there would be more trains and hydrogen cars. The technology is there, it just isn't being used. Look at China for instance. I know that they are communist, but the point is that they are building new high speed electic trains with no wheels. Talk about efficiency. Anyway, I will get off my over inflated soap box now. I clearly don't know all of the facts, but it doesn't look like anyone else does either. Any chemists out there with any ideas?

[trbig]

Any chemists out there with any ideas?

I have alot of experience with different "Chemicals" from back in my school "daze"... does that qualify me?!? lol
Of course it's political. The high oil prices were the Arab country's faults... it was costing the oil comkpanies more to get it, so that's why the cost went up. Oh wait... The oil companies have had 2 quarters of world record profits..... seems that only happens when you sell something for WAY more than you purchase it for....never mind. (I would put a lol there... but it's definately NOT funny!)

Honestly Andrew... no answers from me. I think they have us all by the short hairs...

Tod

[TomKat]

I have always used ethanol blended gas and have never experienced any problems. This thread is the first time I have ever heard about any differences in fuel economy. I know that the E85 fuel is lower, but the standard (10%) ethanol gas is what you will be using. Jut get the higher octane stuff and you should be good to go.

[MAXIMAN]

Snow is right. One of the major additives for octane enhancement is Alcohol (ethanol and methanol). 10% ethanol is common in pump gas. In the corn belt they sell E10 that will run in anything (90% gas - 10% eth). It burns clean and the alcohol retards the rate of combustion.

However when I use it I do notice a slight drop in fuel economy.

The fuel that won't burn in just anything and would likely eat rubber would be the newer E85 (85% Eth - 15% gas). This stuff will only burn in flex fuel cars or vehicles that have been modified to burn it.

I think E10 wouldn't be any worse for your engine than adding a can of Seafoam to every tank (since Seafoam is loaded with Alcohol).

One thing that is a drawback to using alcohol based fuels is their affinity for water. Although water and hydrocarbons are not miscible water and alcohol is. This can cause nasty corrosion in metal...think gas tank...float bowls and even cylinders and heads.

[HobbyMan]

See this is what I am getting at. I am now thinking that corrosion aside maby I should buy the cheaper stuff and raise the octane myself. MY local choices for octane are 87,89,93. If I were to put 4.5gal of 89 octane and .5gal of toluene in my tank, the resultant octane rating would be 91.3(R+M)/2 Also my mileage would be higher than that of straight gasoline. Ehanol has a small energy rating than gasoline(meaning lower gas mileage) So if I add 10% toluene which has a greater energy rating than gas, mileage would go up with the octane rating.

[MAXIMAN]

Andrew

Toluene will eat rubber exponentially faster than alcohol. If it were me I would raise octane via alcohol or....are ya sitting down...?

Diesel...

Diesel is extremely high octane(highly retarded combustion rate)...so high in fact it will not ignite under mere spark but needs extreme compression. Thus diesel engines have 20:1 compression.

The whole point of raising octane is to retard combustion/ignition. Diesel fuel will certainly do that. I've never the stoicheometric calculations to estimate how much would be added to raise pump gas to a certain octane.

But lastly Andrew...why do you want to raise the octane of your fuel? If you are running a stock Eleven (compression) 87 octane is perfectly sufficient. Raising octane will no increase power output unless you have high compression pistons to utilize it.

[Snow]

Originally posted by MAXIMAN Raising octane will no increase power output unless you have high compression pistons to utilize it.

Exactly - you'll lose mileage and power unless your engine is setup to require higher octane, wether it be from ethanol, methanol, touline, methamphetmines, whatever

[TADracer]

The 10% stuff should be Ok in these bikes since the fuel supply is by gravity. A big problem that used to arise with Gasahol was that it was less lubricating than gasoline and would eat up some electric fuel injection pumps. Alcohol is very corrosive by itself but I do not think that the 10% in blended gasoline has any real corrosive affect. But while the alcohol portion may absorb moisture from the air, I do not think it would be any significant amount.

I feel using alcohol blended gasoline is not much more than a matter of reduced fuel performance.