Getting Closer

[FutZ]

OK so I have a 79F. Never seen it run before, PO told me he could only roll start it.
My list:
the fuse box rewired
carbs cleaned with chemdip for 3 hours, rinsed, sprayed with carb cleaner, dried with compressed air. done that three times
all new break pads and fluid
noticed the PO had the sparkplug wires on wrong towers put back to specs in book
Found a rusted boot clip still on a tower that is now gone
new sparkplugs
fresh gas
new inline filters
oh yeah and used the bread tie technique, but then backed the valve down so only half the hole was open on the carb that has an extra notch in the valve

today was the carb clean and bread tie, jumped it off my car (car was off) sprayed starter fluid into the air box and finnally got it to at least fire a few times but it never started
As long as I hold down the starter button it will pop once for ever turn

Also my air box is missing the snorkle so its bypassing the filter making it rich I'm sure

So what do I do next??? mess with the idle screw plug the hole in the top of the airbox (it also had 3 holes drilled inside where the filter is on the bottom thanks to the PO) I'm at a loss and my brain and hands are starting to hurt.

-FutZ

[John]

You might want to replace the airbox first. Have you opened it up to see if the snorkel is inside the box? If you need one, pm me.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Futz,

IF it's only trying to start with the starter button being held in, then it sounds like the Bypass circuit where the TCI sends power directly to the Coils without going thru the Ballast resistor is working, but the power THRU the ballast resistor circuit may NOT be flowing. You can temporarily bypass the resistor, just pull the plug connetor to it and jump across the wires, then try to start it. IF it starts and keep running, then the Ballast Resistor is bad! You'll want to replace it, running without it for very long will fry the coils, and possibly the TCI!

The Snorkel isn't really needed(sorry John), especially with the holes already drilled in the bottom of the box. It's not being restricted causing it to run rich.

You didn't mention any work on the petcocks themselves! You've got inline filters, but are you actually getting fuel to the carbs. If it's hitting with the starter spray, but that's it, then it sounds like it might NOT be getting fuel to/thru the carbs!? Keep at it!! You'll get it!
T.C.

[FutZ]

Snorkel is not in the airbox, I've been thinking about getting a new airbox anyway.

I forgot to mention I've taken apart both petcocks and put in new rebuild kits and cleaned the screens.

I was thinking about the entire setup while I was taking a smoke break tonight and I realized that I also replaced the fuel lines with a harder plastic tubing and I think its causeing it to go up past the outlet on the petcock thus slowing the gravity flow of fuel... I know the carbs have gas but I think its being starved. I don't have a full tank maybe 1.5 gallons at best so there isn't that much pressure pushing fuel out.

Also I didn't mention that my starter button is a POS you have to hold it just right before it will work so I know its not making the best connection in the world but since it was turning over good I didn't really consider it to be a problem that needed a prompt fix.

And another question I had was there is a screw looking thing behind the horn probably 2-3 inches long that is covered in corrostion. I didn't notice it untill today and I couldn't find that part in the book. Pardon me for my ignorance but 6 months ago I had never changed my own sparkplugs, I've still got some learning to do.

With the spark plug wires on the wrong coils before would that hurt the coils themselves or even the wires? I mentioned that they were connected to the wrong towers on the coils but neglected to mention that they were infact on the wrong coils. These are aftermarket coils (bright yellow not sure of manufaturer) and in other posts it said it didn't matter what tower it was on as long as it was on the right coil.

People also talk about a tip switch when a bike goes down it shuts off the engine. I didn't find that in the book and I sure can't find it on the bike, so info on that would help too.

Sorry for rambleing,

-FutZ

[tab1324]

try the basics first

The first thing I would determine is if this is a spark related problem or a fuel related problem. On mine, once I hooked up the gas opened the petcocks into an empty gas line and float bowls it took quite a while before the carbs would fill and I'd have enough gas to start the bike. Let it sit in the prime position for a few hours and then try it.

To check spark, pull out a spark plug and reattach the wire. Have a partner hold the plug against the engine to ground it. They should use gloves and hold onto the plug wire or boot not the plug. Now, crank the engine and look to see if you're getting spark at the plug. It helps if it is a fairly dark area where you do this. Repeat on all four plugs. If no spark on any or all, then it's electrical. If you have spark, then chances are good that it's a fuel delivery problem. Also worth checking the plug gap which should be noted in your manual or under one of the side covers possibly.

The coils are set up to work with one coil firing cylinders 1 and 2 and the other fires 3 and 4.

To check fuel delivery, after cranking the engine, pull a plug and see if it is wet or smells like gas. This only works well with new plugs as old one's can smell like gas anyway. If no fuel is there and you have spark, then obviously you need to take a look at your carbs, petcocks or fuel lines. If you have the "Octopus" it might be causing a fuel problem as well. My opinion is to remove it all together. It's a vacuum shut-off valve that looks like it's got a hundred fuel lines going in and out.

It is possible that you have a stuck nuetral switch - not sure if your model has it. Make sure the bike is in nuetral when trying to start. Not sure the bike would even crank though with it stuck...

When you cleaned the carbs, one thing I've experienced is that you have to pay special attention to the float bowl "choke" jet. It's a very small passage from the float bowl that feeds the tube which comes down from the carb body. It could be plugged and not allowing the choke to work. If this is the case, you need to clean them with a very small and stiff tag wire - DON'T DRILL THEM!!.

From what you've said about starting with starting fluid, this sounds like a fuel delivery issue mostly. Just take is slow, don't get too frustrated and try to cover all the bases. The two things that will cause a motor not to run all come down to fuel and spark. After you've determined which is the problem, then we can hunt down the more specific cause.

Tom B.

[tab1324]

the bolt behind the horn

I think you might be talking about the cam chain tensioner. It's in the middle of cylinders 2 and 3 sticking out of the front of the bike. Maybe you're talking about someting else but if this is what you're looking at, I wouldn't worry about that until you get the bike started. Unless later it is determined that the chain has jumped - but for now, focus on spark and fuel.

Tom B.

[skids]

Re: try the basics first

If we are speaking of an XS11, one coil fires 1 and 4, the other fires 2 and 3. Since you have a 79F, those carbs should have inlet screens and they can get plugged. I had one that appeared to have a spider web mass on it, along with small chunks of black rubber from the old petcock holey-gasket. That was long ago.

Originally posted by tab1324
The coils are set up to work with one coil firing cylinders 1 and 2 and the other fires 3 and 4.

[tab1324]

coils

You're right - 1 & 4 and 2 &3 fire together. so as to clear up any confusion, I mistated this in my previous post.

Tom B.

[Brian_D]

since you did get the bike to fire with starting fluid, sounds like you have good spark but no or little fuel delivery.

noticed that you had "carbs cleaned with chemdip for 3 hours, rinsed, sprayed with carb cleaner, dried with compressed air."

Q. prior to the chemdip, did you remove the butterfly shaft seals? these rubber pieces will be disolved by chemdip and cause extreme lean condition.

just a thought.

side note: O'Reiley's, etc carries a 'Calibrated Ignition Testor' for a couple of bucks (under $5 if I recall correctly). connect plug wire to testor, adjust proper gap on testor, clip to ground, then watch for spark across gap. single man operation on mc and no chance of getting shocked.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Futz,

Doesn't take much gravity pressure to get the fuel to flow, but it won't flow if there's not enough vacuum opening the petcock valves, so...put them on PRIME!!

As long as the starter button is getting the engine to turn over, then it's okay, the button is just the ground end of the circuit.

The "Screw" thing behind the horns is probably the old ballast resistor, however if you have after market coils...yellow, probably Accel, and they are probably 3 ohm style, but you could check with an ohmeter thru the primary wires to be sure. At 3 ohms, the bike doesn't need the ballast resistor anymore, but if the wires are still connected to it, then you will want to bypass/jump those wire together.

Hard to understand what you mean by wrong coil wires on wrong towers!? The left coil should have an orange primary wire going to it, which makes it the #1-4 coil, and those wires should go those plugs, the Grey primary wire goes to the right coil, which controls #2-3 cylinders. The Red/White wires are the power leads going to both coils! No damage to the coils was done with wires crossed.

The tip over switch is a box in the middle of the frame, labelled with the word UPPER stamped on it, about where the tank rubber mounts are, attached to that cross beam just above and posterior to the coils! Keep at it!
T.C.

[FutZ]

OK clearifaction, left coil goes to 1&4 right coil goes to 2&3 that was backwards before. The sparkplugs are new. I have a Calibrated Ignition Testor as you called it but haven't used it yet, I wasn't sure how far the gap in the tester should be set to check for ample spark.

skids: you refer to inlet screens, does that mean the screens attached to the valve needle seat? if so clean as a whistle.

Brian_D: I don't know what a butterfly shaft seal is. So I'm guessing I didn't take it off. Where do I find them in the carb and worst case... how much for new ones? I just took off what the book told me to and used the cleaner it sugested... guess I shouldn't take this thing for scripture.

TopCatGr58: I put them on prime the whole time I was trying to start but that was only like 10-20 mins then I shut them back off again... this was just after I put the carbs back on the bike. Still it looked like there was air in the tubes with it on prime. Also your in the right area with it being a ballast resistor just got me worried when it was covered in white crud. (thanks for the loca. of the tip switch.)

You guys have helped clear quite a bit up... I have a few more things to look at next, testing spark, checking float bowls for amount of fuel, I think I will also put a more fexible fuel line on I'm afraid these are already getting brittle and stiff.

Will give you an update after futher tests.

-FutZ

[FutZ]

Well i'm an idiot... I just read the carb tip of what the bent peice of metal was for. I realized I didn't even remove the pilot screw and clean it or the rubber below it.
I'm sure there is not much left of it now so where do I get that little peice at????

*sigh*

-FutZ

[don07tncav]

FutZ,
I picked up my carb parts at Mikes XS
https://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-fuel...?category_id=x
Just don't mention XS 1100, he is serious about selling to 650 folks only.

[FutZ]

Thanks looks like I can relplace all damaged rubber for 36 bucks (butterfly seals and idle mix o-rings) so that isn't as bad as I thought. Also when I took my carbs apart the first time I lost the little ball bearing that holds the choke in place. I found a new one of those at true value for 11 cents. Oh happy day.

I've been working more than having time to think latley so I will post an update on progress soon(time permitting).

-FutZ