changing transmission fluids

[kavan]

Hey,

I have a 79 XS11 Special. A couple of days ago it started to do funny things. When I am riding, there is a some what violent kick back, which seems to come from the transmission. So i am attempting to change transmission fluid right now, but I can get the hex screws off (the refill screws). Is there a trick that I'm missing? The manual doesn't help, but could some out there? Thanks.

[John]

The trans fluid is the engine oil. It drains from under the engine, behind the oil filter cup. Don't go pulling any bolts out of aything.

[Bill__Woods]

There is a gearbox with seperate fluid, called the Middle Drive. Drain plug for it is towards the rear center of the bottom of engine. The fill plug is down below left side cover.
I change my Middle and Final Drive oils about every 2 years with Mopar Synthetic gear oil. Mopar is my preffered brand as a friend bring it to me for free from the car dealer he works at. It only take about a quart to do both of them.

[John]

Wild Bill's right. If you don't have the dipstick for checking the gear oils, then the safest way to check the levels is to change the gear oils. Look on the rear of the engine, above the where the center stand pivots for a 17 mm hex head. That is the middle gear drain. The manual says to add 10 oz of oil. Synthetic is good. I use castrol sythentic gear oil. The final drive is supposed to hold 10 oz also, but I have never been able to get mine to take more than 6 oz. Change it every year or so.

[kavan]

That was precisely what I was trying to do. I drained the fluid and then realized that I am unable loosen the screws (where the dip stick would go for measurements). So right now I am stuck with no gear oil, because I can't put more in.

Thanks John and Bill, for prompt responses.

K

[pathfinder]

See this thread

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...&threadid=5211 it has some good info for removal of these two filler bolts. Sometimes they can be a b!tch.

[Do Lee]

Kavan,
When I change out middle and rear drive oil and if the fill plug is hard to break I will clean around the edge of the plug and threads, add penetrating oil and use a 6mm allen wrench (make sure that the plugs hole is clear of dirt and grime) insert allen wrench and use a no-blow sledge 2lbs or 5lbs hammer to loosen the plug. First tap on the allen wrench clockwise to break the crude around the pulg that has it stuck, then tap on the allen wench counter clockwise to loosen the plug for removal.
Do'Lee

[John]

heat

You could heat the area around filler plug with a propane torch. The propane does not get hot enough to damage the aluminum. Don't heat the plug, just the area around it. If that fails, try a vice grip on the plug. If you can't find an XS11 at a salvage yard for a new plug, check for an XS750 or 850 triple. They have the same plug. I just checked the part numbers for the plugs, that's how I found out.

[brock]

what exactly is the problem you're experiencing?

i find that with something like this, if you make sure the allen wrench is on really well, i can put a good long bit of pipe on the end, and increase the preasure gradually until it breaks free. throw some WD40 on there, go inside, make yourself a burger, have a beer, watch three's company, go outside, put the cheater bar on it, and break it free.

this is especially easy if you have a replacement part already ordered.

but this might not solve your problem what problem are you experiencing?

[kavan]

oil pumping and condoms

Hey everyone, thanks for all the help. I still haven't gotten the refill cap off. But we (my roommate and I) did get some oil in that chamber. It is an interesting procedure. Heres how it goes.

We bought two rubber tubes, one with diameter the size of the drain hole, and the other much smaller. we put the small tube all the way through the large tube, about eight and five long respectively, so that it was sticking out about six inches on one side and three feet on the other side. In order to do this we had to lubricate the small tube with gear oil. Next we tried to put the large tube in the drain hole (six inches end), this didn't work (wrong diameter), so we used a condom and a hair tie to complete the mission. Next we put a funnel on the other end of the tubes, with the small tube coming out of the funnel hole. The small tube was connected to a Mity-Vac. Then we started pouring oil into the funnel, and started to suck it into the chamber with the Mity-Vac. This went on for about thirty minutes. At that point we took out the tubes from the drain hole (along with the hair tie and the condom) and quickly screwed in the drain cap. It worked and my bike runs great.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Kavan,

Well, whatever works!! However, next time you might try just lying the bike down on it's left side after draining it, should allow you to directly pour the oil into the drain hole without all of the gymnastics, since the middle gear chamber holds more that what you're putting in and the drain plug is further right than the fill location, it should collect into the left side of the chamber, and allow you to easily pour in the required ~300cc. Just curious how you could be sure of the volume of oil you put in vs. the amount you took out!?
T.C.

[MAXIMAN]

It seems the fill plug is secondary to this issue:

When I am riding, there is a some what violent kick back, which seems to come from the transmission.

Sounds serious. What kinda kickback is it? It almost sounds like you are describing the notorious "second gear " issue when the bike will kick out of second gear under heavy acceleration.

[Michael March]

Couldn't get my filler cap off either. A long time mechanic friend came over with a cold chisel. He put a slight crease in the cap with one tap, then with a second tap in the direction of loose, he loosened it up in less than thirty seconds, after I spent hours and rounded the allen hole. A new cap and voila. No worries.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Maximan,

You're right, and I usually look at the whole message when I reply! Yes, Kavan, with that kick back symptom, it does sound like the 2nd gear malady, dropping out and back into gear!! You can review lots of info in the tech tips under Repairs, Transmission section about it!!
T.C.

[kavan]

You're right, the kick-back was the main issue. That's what got me into this mess. It took me almost a month to get some oil back in the bike. After that and along with changing the transmission oil, re-synchronizing the carbs somehow the kick-back disappeared. I am not sure what it was, but the bike runs great now. I never had a chance diagnose the real problem.

I am pretty sure this wasn't a transmission problem looking back at it. I think my carbs were synched real bad. I can't be sure about this though.

BTW T. C. The chamber was already empty when I started (I had no trouble taking the drain cap off). So the amount of oil that I had to pump in to the chamber had to equal the volume of the large tube (about 60 inches^3) plus six fl. oz. This way I was certain that enough oil was in the chamber.

I was afraid to lay the bike down at the time, but I think that would work better after all.