Gonna Un-do XJ's linked braking system.

[foxjohnc]

I am going to undo the linked braking system on my XJ due to the fact that it sucks. Have been in several occasions where having an unlinked rear brake would have been great. I am planning on using all the stock Xj parts aside from the front master cylinder. I have one from another model bike that would work better. Will try to post pics and diagrams when I am through. Hopefully it will work as planned. Does anyone know what would happen if you hooked both sides of the proportioning valve to the rear brake? Would it work? How about if you blocked the fitting that is supposed to go to the front? Would this work? Or would it lose pressure to the rear after it sensed a restriction in the front side? It sucks that you cannot just remove the valve altogether. The fittings are'nt correct and it would be hell to find an adaptor.

[chevy45412001]

brake delete

i've disconnected the front back set up also.I got a rear master off an xs i believe ,run one line to back brake then one to the front brake,works fine,but i am going to put it back to original,just because.First need to get all kits calipers and masters,ss lines hopfully frm randy,then rebuild the whole shooting match.

[Jerry]

Do a search on XJ brakes. I recall one recent conversion indicated to put the rear brake line on the output for the front caliper, worked better this way.

Jury is out on swapping front master cylinders. The XJ only pushes one, so a change is recommended, but a more lever travel will operate both.

Again, from memory, the bracket where the under-tank line ends under the steering heard may be modified to make a more XS-like union.

Don't agree that the stock system is that bad, in fact, I got to like it over the years. It is different and takes some getting used to, but modern brake systems, like the BMW R1150 RT, use a similar linked system. (BMW also includes ABS.)

[mitch]

linked brakes

Bkr removed his linked brakes on his XJ by pluging the hole where the line comes out of the proportining valve, then put both lines into a block he got off an xs to his original master cylinder . his works great. I did the same thing to my Venture royal but i just run my front brake line from my left side to my right side on the front and it works fine with the stock m/c.........................MITCH

[foxjohnc]

Tonight I started the conversion. I got my front hooked up using two right brake lines. Used the Bolt that connects the rear line to the front to hook up both lines to the m/c. It now works excellent but it requires a little bit more of travel on the lever. Who cares. It will lock up the wheel if you lay on them hard enough. As far as the rear goes, I found out that the rear brake lever actuator ( the thing that goes between the lever and the rear m/c) was corroded badly and not returning properly. It was causing the rear brake to not release fully. The pads are almost all the way gone. I disconnected the line to the front and plugged it up with a rear master cylinder fill bolt and crush washer. I cleaned everything up well, bled the system, but the rear brake is really sucky. There isnt any air in the system. Would the rear pads cause this? They arent worn all the way down but are about 1/16 to it. I guess that the rears werent working all of this time? That would explain the bad experiences that I have had with linked brakes. I still want to disconnect them though.

Does anyone know if my local yamaha dealer would stock rear pads for my XJ? How much do they usually sell for?

[Shuriken]

What's so bad about linked brakes? Sounds like a great idea but I'd like to know real world results...

Anybody used anti-locks?

Ben

[foxjohnc]

Well, I just like having control over which wheel has braking applied. Say you have a flat or blowout on the front, if you have normal brakes you can apply steady pressure on the back and get it to a safe stop. If you have linked brakes, you are forced to put braking pressure on the front wheel, which in turn may put you into an uncontolled skid. I have had several bad experiences with the linked brakes which include a near lay down coming into a parking space. I put pressure on the rear lever and due to oil on the pavement the front tire locked up and I almost busted my butt. Seems the XJ doesnt like to slide in a straight line. That convinced me, me no like linked brakes.

[Shuriken]

Makes complete sense. Hmmm..... do bikes come optional with that feature nowdays or is it forced on the buyer?

Ben

[foxjohnc]

All of the cruisers I have seen except the goldwing have independant braking systems. This includes the full line of cruisers by Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki, just to name a few. The guy who sold me the bike tried to use the linked brakes as a selling point, I just told him that I wouldnt charge him to disable them. He said that it is easier to just use one brake instead of two. Just like it is easier to have an automatic tranny instead of a standard. I mean half the fun of biking is the feeling of being in control of the bike. With all of these creature comforts you might as well hop in your minivan and have at it.

[Jerry]

Can't speak for other bikes, but the BMW does not give you an option...linked is what you get.

The advantage of the linked system lies in 3 areas: better straight-line braking, better control in hard stops, and more progessive braking pressure.

The linked system enables you to get the best performance out of all 3 calipers. I've noticed a tendancy of many people to either ignore or under-use the rear brake in 'normal' riding. While it does not have the stopping power of the front caliper due to weight transfer, it still adds significantly to the stopping power. In rain or on slick roads I'v found the linked system to minimize front tire lockup and produce very well-controlled stops.

The control in stops comes from reducing the bike's tendancy to nose dive under heavy front-brake application. The linked system drags the rear of the bike down. I have learned to do the bulk of my braking with the linked system and using the front brake to finesse whatever additional stopping power I need.

Overall, I find the XJ system to be give more control because the braking is more progressive. A little brake and the bike settles nicely into corners and at stop signs. More pressure and the front starts to kick in for some serious stopping power. Using both front and rear for emergency braking.

Not to say the system is flawless. I wish the proportioning valve were adjustable, for example. Under some conditions, like a blowout, it may be less desireable than separate brakes. However, in riding for 30 years, and most of that on tubeless tires, I've never had a front blowout. You have to weight the advantages and disadvantages. Oil on the road? Yes, I've had that to, and it may be one area where the linked system is at a disadvantage, though I've never had a problem with the linked system on pretty slippery surfaces.

Modern auto ABS systems are fundamentally proportion-valve systems, albeit more sophisticated than the XJ's simple mechanical system.

A good rider can learn to use the separate systems as well or better than a linked system, no doubt about it. But even our own surveys indicate most riders put under 7K miles per year on their rides, or ride only part-year, or sometimes ride with passengers and somtimes solo. In short, most riders, particularly at the start of the season, don't use their brakes as effectively as possible. The linked system helps make these riders and passengers safer by taking over some of the braking technique.

I find the linked system works for me. It uses brake pressure well, I can keep my right hand on the throttle instead of lifting it for the brake lever which helps me control the bike in fast turns, and I don't feel I have lost any stopping ability. My confidence in the system working well in poor driving condions is quite high. Keep in mind, though, that I have rebuilt both master cylinders and gone to ss brake lines, both of which improved the braking quite a bit from what it was when I brought the bike home. I also EBC organic brake pads, FWIW.

The folks who have converted like the separates that way, so it is a matter of choice and preference, and riding style. I would say, though, that I consider the XJ's linked system to be an advantage to the bike, not a flaw.

[chevy45412001]

pad prices

I live in northern illinois and the brake prices range from 26-32 dollars per set ,either front or back.Thats at yamy shop independent shop or mail order.Yes they are readily available almost any where.

[foxjohnc]

Got new rear pads and installed them. Still crappy rear brakes. I have left the rear brakes stock and just plugged off the line going to the front. I guess that this isnt going to work. The brakes are bled properly and the pedal moves slightly and starts to apply the brakes and then just stops. I mean, you could stand on the lever and it wouldnt move. Someone mentioned that it is better to hook the line to the front caliper output. Is this true? I am planning next to just tear apart the proportioning valve, that way it wont matter which port it hooks up to. Am getting tired of having no rear brake. The front brakes are strong enough to throw you over the bars. That is how I like them. It feels good to have the braking power when you need them.

[Ken Talbot]

Just a while back I was helping a co-worker with his new bike, and he had a problem with his front brake. You could feel the pressure starting to build, then the lever went absolutely solid but you weren't getting any braking effect. That time, it turned out the lever itself was binding on the throttle grip housing. Is there any chance your brake lever is binding on anything like an exhaust hanger or???

JAT.....

[foxjohnc]

Well, I finally got my rear brakes working. Heres what I did:

Removed line that goes from the back to the front and removed the front portion of it. Took off the rear master cylinder and removed the proportioning valve. Picked it up and chucked it far, far away. (Just kidding, a fellow Xsive might need it) Took the line from the proportioning valve (the steel one with wierd fittings) and hooked it up to the portion of line removed earlier in step one. It bolts right up as both share the wierd fittings. Used the line joiner that usually is mounted on the steering head on a stock setup (joins the line from the rear to the line going to the left front caliper) to connect the line from the rear m/c to the line coming from the rear caliper. Bled the system and gave it a few presses. Much better. I still havent gotten the bike back together enough to ride around the block but I can tell right now that it is going to work. Looks like I have figured out how to de-link the brakes with all stock parts except an extra front caliper line and a 2-port pinch bolt. Both can be had from a junked XJ for little sums of money.