I need some "no spark" guidance

[neJeff]

I've had this particular XS for about two years, finally getting to it. I am getting no spark when checked with my spark tester. Plugged and unplugged the igniter, all looks good and clean (still could be bad though I am sure). Walk me through the process of narrowing down this no spark issue if you could. Whats next?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jeff,

Have you replaced the old OEM glass fuses and panel with a modern ATCO style fuseblock?

Next, not getting spark tells me that you are able to crank the bike with the starter button, but are not seeing spark on a test spark plug?? Remember that the coils are wasted spark design, both plugs of the same coil fire at the same time....BUT when you're testing for spark, you have to have the spark plug IN the cap, and laying on the head/engine so that the plug base can GROUND/CONNECT to the head to complete the circuit, otherwise you will NOT be able to see a spark because it can't flow from the coil thru 1 wire, plug, engine and then back UP thru the other plug and wire.

Okay, you have the 80 special. Need to verify you are getting power to the coils. With the key ON, take your voltmeter to the Red/White wires that plug into the coils and you should see close to 12V. You have the Ballast Resistor, but it's not involved until the engine starts, THEN the TCI routes power thru the B.R. and voltage will drop to around 9 volts while running. If the BR is bad, folks are usually able to START the bike, but can't keep it running.

After checking for power to the coils, use the VM in OHM mode and check the primary and secondary resistances...should be about 1.5 ohms Primary between the red/white and either the Orange or Gray wire that's on the COIL side, not the harness side, and should be unplugged from the harness. Secondary resistance WITHOUT the plug caps should be ~15K ohms, allow another ~5k ohms per cap, check them separately, they also can go bad preventing spark.

IF all of that checks out good, then check the PickUp wires under the left timing cover, they break and then don't signal the TCI to fire, you can check their resistances at the plug at the TCI...see the manual for specifics.

Also, check the emergency KILL switch, known to corrode and prevent functioning when messed up.

[neJeff]

Hey Jeff,

Have you replaced the old OEM glass fuses and panel with a modern ATCO style fuseblock?

Next, not getting spark tells me that you are able to crank the bike with the starter button, but are not seeing spark on a test spark plug?? Remember that the coils are wasted spark design, both plugs of the same coil fire at the same time....BUT when you're testing for spark, you have to have the spark plug IN the cap, and laying on the head/engine so that the plug base can GROUND/CONNECT to the head to complete the circuit, otherwise you will NOT be able to see a spark because it can't flow from the coil thru 1 wire, plug, engine and then back UP thru the other plug and wire.

Okay, you have the 80 special. Need to verify you are getting power to the coils. With the key ON, take your voltmeter to the Red/White wires that plug into the coils and you should see close to 12V. You have the Ballast Resistor, but it's not involved until the engine starts, THEN the TCI routes power thru the B.R. and voltage will drop to around 9 volts while running. If the BR is bad, folks are usually able to START the bike, but can't keep it running.

After checking for power to the coils, use the VM in OHM mode and check the primary and secondary resistances...should be about 1.5 ohms Primary between the red/white and either the Orange or Gray wire that's on the COIL side, not the harness side, and should be unplugged from the harness. Secondary resistance WITHOUT the plug caps should be ~15K ohms, allow another ~5k ohms per cap, check them separately, they also can go bad preventing spark.

IF all of that checks out good, then check the PickUp wires under the left timing cover, they break and then don't signal the TCI to fire, you can check their resistances at the plug at the TCI...see the manual for specifics.

Also, check the emergency KILL switch, known to corrode and prevent functioning when messed up.

Thanks very much TomCat! I should clear up (just looked at my signature and it's WAY out of date) that I am working on a 79' Standard now, the Special has been gone for some time.

I will start in tomorrow narrowing things down, thanks again!

PS Yes, I have converted over to that fuseblock you mentioned

[neJeff]

Ok, definitely not getting a spark (plug tested).

Am getting around 11 volts to the coil hot wires (both)

Not great with a Voltmeter but I get around 3 between the coils (red/white between gray and then the orange). I am unsure how to test the secondary, don't understand where to connect the leads.\

Thanks for the help, this damn thing has me stumped

The bike we are talking about it a 79' XS1100 standard edition.


PS Pickup wires were inspected, look like new

[DiverRay]

For the coils, put the red lead from the VOM into one spark plug cap, and the black lead into the other cap on the same coil. Scale should be K Ohms, and you should get between 22 and 27K ohms on the VOM. IF it's higher than that, unscrew the two caps from the wires and then measure again, only this time it will be just the wires from the coil. Reading should be no more than 16K Ohms.
Check the caps while they are off, same setting on the VOM, black into the spark plug side and red into the wire side. should be no more than 5K Ohms on the VOM. The wire colors don't need to go to any one point to measure, I just used the colors to points so you know what to measure and how.

[neJeff]

For the coils, put the red lead from the VOM into one spark plug cap, and the black lead into the other cap on the same coil. Scale should be K Ohms, and you should get between 22 and 27K ohms on the VOM. IF it's higher than that, unscrew the two caps from the wires and then measure again, only this time it will be just the wires from the coil. Reading should be no more than 16K Ohms.
Check the caps while they are off, same setting on the VOM, black into the spark plug side and red into the wire side. should be no more than 5K Ohms on the VOM. The wire colors don't need to go to any one point to measure, I just used the colors to points so you know what to measure and how.

Not sure if the ignition switch needed to be on or not so tried it both ways, between 1 /4 and 2/3 with caps on and literally nothing occurred on my meter at all. Did not try with the caps off, not sure what the point would be, either my testing is FUBAR'd or I'm missing something

[neJeff]

Okay, like I said, bad with voltmeter

Moved the setting to 2000K setting on the dial and I get this:

2/3 wires with NO caps on --- 340

1/4 wires with caps on 030

Does this mean anything to anyone? Damn I hate electrical

[neJeff]

measuring the two caps that are off the wires

2000K setting

one is 008

other is 215

[neJeff]

Other two caps (1 and 4) both 008 on the ohm meter (2000k setting)

[neJeff]

Sorry for all these posts, let me clean this up:

Cap resistance

3 caps ---- 008 on 2000k setting
1 cap ---- 215 on 2000k setting

1/4 Coil Resitance without caps (2000k setting) ----- 017

2/3 Coil Resitance without caps (2000k setting) ----- 408

Took these reading after clipping back about 1/4" on each wire

What the hell am I looking at here guys!

[DiverRay]

A new set of coils and caps....
You have one BAD coil and one bad cap. At this point I would opt to spend some money, if available, on a set of 3 Ohm coils/wires/caps. I KNOW 2/3 is NOT working so 1/4 will probably follow it's lead and be dead shortly. It's the problem with a bike that is 38 years old.
Take a look at http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ght=Dyna+coils

[neJeff]

A new set of coils and caps....
You have one BAD coil and one bad cap. At this point I would opt to spend some money, if available, on a set of 3 Ohm coils/wires/caps. I KNOW 2/3 is NOT working so 1/4 will probably follow it's lead and be dead shortly. It's the problem with a bike that is 38 years old.
Take a look at http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ght=Dyna+coils

Yeah, thats looks like the way to go. So if I upgrade to 3 ohm coils I would need to ditch the ballast resistor? That was an interesting thread. Jumped from 2003 to 2017, that is resurrecting a thread from the dead.

I may have a used set of coils off a 79', going to rummage around and if I do may see if those coils are any good while I am saving for the Dyna

[neJeff]

I had a 2/3 coil from a 79.

Ohm test between wire leads is 028 (this is caps ON)

Between power wires red/white and gray is 3

Going to give this one a whirl and see what happens

[neJeff]

Thanks TopCat and DiverRay!

Got those issues worked out and she runs! Long ways to go but you must start somewhere.

I don't remember how to post pics here anywhere but I'll get some and figure it out

Thanks guys!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jeff,

Congrats that it's running, but have a few points with this Electrickery for you to check.

You initially tried measuring the Primary Resistances with the VOLTMETER, not the OHMeter. You said you found the value of 3 between the primaries(Red/White and Gray) but unsure if you were reporting VOLTS vs. OHMS? But if OHMS, then want to make sure that the coils were unconnected from the harness and you were just testing/measuring thru the wires that ONLY went to the coils.

The problem I see is IF you had 3 ohms...that 1.5 too many for OEM coils for a 79 model, because it uses the 1.5 ohm ballast resistor as well. Can you tell us what #'s are stamped on the coils...both the 1-4 you kept on the bike, as well as the replacement 2-3 unit? If they are truly 79 model coils they should be the same. But if someone switched and put the later model coils from the 81-82 model, THEN they would be/have 3 ohms on the Primary wires.

Running the 3 ohm coils on the bike WITH the ballast resistor won't necessarily hurt the bike/TCI, but will probably result in weaker spark energy. But running 1.5 ohm coils WITHOUT the ballast resistor WILL damage the TCI, frying output transistors and such, so that's why it's important to KNOW what type of coils you have and their primary wires resistance values.

T.C.