XS1100 Transmission repair - Replacement parts

[Thierry]

Hello guys,

I'm about to start working on my ''1978 XS1100 standard'' transmission. I have the common 2nd gear skipping issue and will probably work on the 1st gear as well as most of the articles/forums I've read say that even though the gear feels strong when riding the bike, it will need to be done someday. So may as well do it all at once.

I've read everything I could find on the subject and seems like the ''dremel fix'' is the way to go. But I'd still prefer to buy some good replacement gears that feature the newer ''undercut dog/slot'' design if the price is reasonable... I would be keen to spend a few hundred dollars for that. So is there anyone who knows one of the following?

- Is there a compatible model (that features the newer gear design) that I could take the gears from? Was thinking the newer XJ1100?

- Any supplier where I could find new gears? I've found links in some older forums but they don't work anymore. There must be someone somewhere selling those..

- If the dremel fix remains my only option, any advice on how to setup and ensure a good quality work? I was thinking of a jig or something to hold the Dremel to make a better and more precise work. There is lots of information about the subject but not so much about the grinding itself.
I did find a video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBNop68svTs
I'm absolutely not impressed with this guy's method. Looks way too random to me. How do you make sure that the mating surfaces remain parallel when you work like that, or make sure that the same amount of material is removed on each dog and slot to make sure they all engage at the same time..?
Also, do you know what would be the optimum angle? Too low won't fix the issue, and too strong will make it too hard to disengage..


Thanks,

[motoman]

As far as getting the gear 'dogs' all the same so they share equal loads, what I did was was clamp that gear vertical in vice with first 'dog' at top. With dermal having a real fine stone, I started rearward of dog. Holding the dermal at same angle, ground the same circumference over and across the dog till that held grinding angle came out to the end of 'dog'. Rotated gear in vice till next dog was at the top. Held same angle and did the same thing. Repeated till all 'dogs' were done. After which I mic. checked material removed and all 'dogs' were the same. Next, since my dermal stone was identical diameter as slots, I back-ground all the slots just on the load side of them. This made for a perfect dovetail fit of both. I did ALL the gears and slots same way. The only annoying occasional issue is when downshifting from second to first gear. One has to bump the throttle a bit to get those dogs to release from the slots. Other than that, after finished, I rode it to the local drag-strip here on a Friday nite test'n'tune happening out there(NHRA sanctioned). Reason was for a few abusive test runs to make sure all gears held. Did that all three times doing ALL speed shifts. Tested fine and all has been good now for some 7yrs. with an occasional speed shift whenever I get the urge. Hope that was explained simply enough for ya' and was of some help. (BTW, here at 5,000ft. elev. bike ran low to mid 13's at 102-107mph), so not too shabby for this elevation and a factory full dresser weighing in at 683lbs..

[Thierry]

Thanks for sharing you experience. Sounds like your work fixed the problem for good. Great job!!. Do you think that the downshift from 2nd to 1st gear is a bit rough because you have ground in a (too) strong angle? Do you have an idea of the angle you used?

The guy who made the video on youtube (link posted above) said in the comments that the fix was a fail for him. Not exactly sure why it failed, but I'm pretty sure that a more precise grinding would help.

[DiverRay]

You NEED to try and take off as little as possible when you grind. A few of the people here have spent the money to have the work done at a machine shop. This will keep everything very close, and the shifting will be good. You can also have the gears treated via cold hardening. I've not done that, so no comment.
The '79 standard I had was ridden for 60K miles after the fix with no problems. I've also done one or two other XS fixes that have held up. And yes, motoman STILL likes to speed shift! I should be seeing him again this summer just to verify that fact.

[Thierry]

Having the work done in a machine shop sounds like a good option to me, I just have no idea of how much I should expect to pay. I guess I should go see them and ask.

If anyone has been there before, would love to hear what angles you used!

[DiverRay]

For a machine shop, 2 to 3 degree is all you need. Just so it tries to pull together a little bit.

[Thierry]

Would the gear from a 1985 FJ1100 be compatible with the XS1100?

I found some on motorsport.com and the price is quite interesting.

[motoman]

Thanks for sharing you experience. Sounds like your work fixed the problem for good. Great job!!. Do you think that the downshift from 2nd to 1st gear is a bit rough because you have ground in a (too) strong angle? Do you have an idea of the angle you used?

The guy who made the video on youtube (link posted above) said in the comments that the fix was a fail for him. Not exactly sure why it failed, but I'm pretty sure that a more precise grinding would help.

Angle wasn't much to say, but held same angle on all the dogs on all the the gears. I believe that angle combined with angle grinding the slots on the 'load' side made a HUGE difference retaining gear engagement. Actually don't mind the stiffer engagement downshifting from second to first. Least that tells me engagement stays and is a positive. Angle cut was held at such an angle that not much of the dog was lost by time ground angle reached the end of dog where they tend to get rounded off and not retain locked into slot very well, which also removed that rounded end.

[motoman]

You NEED to try and take off as little as possible when you grind. A few of the people here have spent the money to have the work done at a machine shop. This will keep everything very close, and the shifting will be good. You can also have the gears treated via cold hardening. I've not done that, so no comment.
The '79 standard I had was ridden for 60K miles after the fix with no problems. I've also done one or two other XS fixes that have held up. And yes, motoman STILL likes to speed shift! I should be seeing him again this summer just to verify that fact.

Looking forward to seeing and visiting with you Ray. Anita and I won't be aboard two wheels, so just have to keep my speed-shifting in your memories.

[bikerphil]

what would be the optimum angle?

If you look at 3rd gear dogs, they have a back cut. Use that angle on your 2nd/5th gear dogs.

[donebysunday]

Dremel

I relied on the folks right here to give me thoughts on doing these dogs and slots.
I did mine with great use of a caliper and checking on almost every touch with the dremel. With the help I got here and some sort of magic the dogs and slots were not, if at all no further off than a sheet of copy paper. I've photos if you like ?

One of the major things I was told by folks here, ..... when looking at these dogs and slots after the fix and a number of miles later, (for whatever reason they went back into the trans) these dogs/slots were mashed together like someone took a large sledge to them.
So if your a bit off not to worry they will mash together just fine after a few MOTOMAN like speed shifts for a good tight fit.

[Thierry]

If you look at 3rd gear dogs, they have a back cut. Use that angle on your 2nd/5th gear dogs.

Thats interesting! Thanks will do that!

[Thierry]

I relied on the folks right here to give me thoughts on doing these dogs and slots.
I did mine with great use of a caliper and checking on almost every touch with the dremel. With the help I got here and some sort of magic the dogs and slots were not, if at all no further off than a sheet of copy paper. I've photos if you like ?

One of the major things I was told by folks here, ..... when looking at these dogs and slots after the fix and a number of miles later, (for whatever reason they went back into the trans) these dogs/slots were mashed together like someone took a large sledge to them.
So if your a bit off not to worry they will mash together just fine after a few MOTOMAN like speed shifts for a good tight fit.

Yes would love to see some photos!

I haven't thought before about the fact that wear could even out the dogs until the point that they all engage at the same time.
I'm a very different driver than MOTOMAN, I use the clutch all the time and I never really push the bike to the limit! Treat it like a grandpa as the bike is older than I am! That might change over time though, this is my first bike and my first season as a motorcyclist as well!

[motoman]

Yes would love to see some photos!

I haven't thought before about the fact that wear could even out the dogs until the point that they all engage at the same time.
I'm a very different driver than MOTOMAN, I use the clutch all the time and I never really push the bike to the limit! Treat it like a grandpa as the bike is older than I am! That might change over time though, this is my first bike and my first season as a motorcyclist as well!

Speed-shifting also uses the clutch all the time.....just no letting off throttle.
BTW, buying the Venturer new at age 29 definitely didn't classify me as a grandpa.....least not then as of yet, till age 57, IIRC.

[Thierry]

What I was trying to say is that I like to treat my bike like a grandpa. Just cruising around nice and slow!

Sorry still don't master the english langage..