Mike (RadioGuyLogs) Inspired Me To Install New Rings . . .

[IanDMacDonald]

So, I hijacked another thread about their base gasket, and contemplated fixing my own base gasket leak. I was already going to take the front end apart to do the steering head bearings, plus the carbs were coming off for a Spring blow-out. That's half the bike apart right there, why not keep going and fix the leak!?!?

So, with that being said, I plan-on going with a set of Standard rings from this eBay listing:

http://r.ebay.com/QODFuL

Nate Moen mentioned that he used a 73mm Flex Hone. I noticed that these rings are for a bore slightly larger than 71mm. Will using a 73 mm Flex Hone hurt the cylinders if I am not using oversized rings?

I guess before I get too far into things, I'd want to check to make sure my cylinders are within spec, ehh? After that, I guess I could proceed with ring purchase?

Looks like it should be a straight-forward process with the install. Any tips on ring install? Any and all help would be cool. Thanks!

[motoman]

The 'dingle-ball' flex hone will just re-establish a cross-hatch pattern in cyls.
I would consider checking the new ring end-gap for correct specs. by placing ring in cyl. prior to installing on pistons.

[IanDMacDonald]

The 'dingle-ball' flex hone will just re-establish a cross-hatch pattern in cyls.
I would consider checking the new ring end-gap for correct specs. by placing ring in cyl. prior to installing on pistons.

I'm familiar with finding the ring end-gap, but does it necessitate buying rings that may or may not work, to get the value? Otherwise, it sounds like a possible waste of money on rings you may, or may not be able to use, all in the name of guessing.

[natemoen]

When I did my rings I actually bought 1st oversized rings and just gapped the ends. My cylinders were all good so I just ran the ball hone through it and gapped the rings and reassembled.

[3Phase]

I'm familiar with finding the ring end-gap, but does it necessitate buying rings that may or may not work, to get the value? Otherwise, it sounds like a possible waste of money on rings you may, or may not be able to use, all in the name of guessing.

Ian, look at the rings/pistons/cylinders to see if they're good or ATFU.

Measure the ring thicknesses with a micrometer.

Measure the ring-to-piston side clearances in the pistons with feeler gauges.

Check the ring end gaps in the cylinder bores with the old rings.

If you don't have a set of bore gauges, check the end gaps at the top, middle and bottom of the cylinder so you can tell if the bore is tapered. That won't give you fore-and-aft cylinder wear from the pistons but from what I've seen, these cylinders don't get a whole lot of wear.

If the rings are in spec, break the glaze and use them. If they're not or you don't want to do this again in a few years, just get a set of standard rings.

If the cylinders are out of spec, get another set of jugs and don't fool with oversize whatevers unless you're springing for a big-bore kit.



Sent from my Lumia 950 XL with Continuum

[IanDMacDonald]

Ian, look at the rings/pistons/cylinders to see if they're good or ATFU.

Measure the ring thicknesses with a micrometer.

Measure the ring-to-piston side clearances in the pistons with feeler gauges.

Check the ring end gaps in the cylinder bores with the old rings.

If you don't have a set of bore gauges, check the end gaps at the top, middle and bottom of the cylinder so you can tell if the bore is tapered. That won't give you fore-and-aft cylinder wear from the pistons but from what I've seen, these cylinders don't get a whole lot of wear.

If the rings are in spec, break the glaze and use them. If they're not or you don't want to do this again in a few years, just get a set of standard rings.

If the cylinders are out of spec, get another set of jugs and don't fool with oversize whatevers unless you're springing for a big-bore kit.



Sent from my Lumia 950 XL with Continuum

Okie dokie. When I cross this bridge, I'll update the thread.

[3Phase]

Okie dokie. When I cross this bridge, I'll update the thread.

Right on, I almost forgot:

Check the pistons and their fit in the cylinders after you remove the rings. Look at the piston skirts for scuffing, overheating or seizing. Don't freak out if they're not perfect.

One of the pistons in my '80G had started to seize so I smoothed it and buffed it out, then put back in with new rings. It knocked at 'float' when the engine got hot but it did it for 70,000 miles until the last teardown (that didn't work).

Have fun with it, used but good parts are still pretty cheap and available!

[IanDMacDonald]

Right on, I almost forgot:

Check the pistons and their fit in the cylinders after you remove the rings. Look at the piston skirts for scuffing, overheating or seizing. Don't freak out if they're not perfect.

One of the pistons in my '80G had started to seize so I smoothed it and buffed it out, then put back in with new rings. It knocked at 'float' when the engine got hot but it did it for 70,000 miles until the last teardown (that didn't work).

Have fun with it, used but good parts are still pretty cheap and available!

Perfect Scott. I'm going to bring the Yamaha out of storage in another week or so, but the Triumph will get priority as-far as the checklist of things needing to be done on it.

[Radioguylogs]

Thoughts

I've done honing/rings only once before, but I am glad I did.

My approach would be to measure the cylinder walls with a bore gauge. I borrowed an expensive Mitumi Gauge style ($200) and cheap Craftsman Micrometer style ($10), and I found they would both be adequate for the job. It's better to measure it about six times and throw out the strange readings.

Normally you measure the diameter at the cylinder top, middle, and bottom; perpendicular and parallel to the piston wrist pins (six locations total).

The walls are usually straight is the direction parallel to the wrist pin, but the cylinders get an hour glass shape perpendicular to the wrist pins. When the hour glass gets too far out of round (somewhere about 0.002"), then it becomes "out-of-spec". I think it has to be strictly adhered to - it's a guideline.

I found 20k miles within spec- don't how many miles it takes to be out-of-spec.

I would think a not-too-badly-out-of-spec bore that was honed and had new rings would be a lot better than doing nothing. The rings skate over a polished surface, However, in a honed cylinder, the oil is trapped in the crosshatch pattern and it seals the rings.

BTW, I checked my ball hone to see if it was suitable to loan to you. It is 2-3/4" (70mm) 240 grit silicon carbide. I used it for the cylinders in one of the Triples (68mm bore). The ideal size for the XS11 (71.5mm bore) would be the 2-7/8" (73mm) ball hone. I'm sure mine would close enough if you choose to borrow it.

Don't know how many miles you have on your bike, but you won't regret this job when you heard that thump-thump-thump of great compression.

[IanDMacDonald]

The funny thing is, it looks like I'll be doing this job twice between two bikes ('80 GS100), so I get prenty of experience. I'm sure I can borrow a bore gauge from somebody. The flex will be bought.

Gotta get the bike home first, then I'll start breaking the bike down. Sad, as I really did not want to get this far into it, but as Mike says, it'll pay-off. Thanks!