Second gear - tranny swap or 2nd gear fix

[MaximPhil]

Hi ERM,
See above comment from Greg. DO remove the oil pan before flipping and after draining the oil Definitely a two person job to flip it safely.
Read the tech tip and I would suggest it will go better if you take your time and break for sleep. there are things in there that can get broken and if you rush you risk that. With the washer swap the gears only just go back in so be patient.
Phil
ps I've seen it done to mine which we flipped.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Bhammin,

I posted that tech tip in 2004, but it was done after working on an XJ11. I did my repair on my own bike in 2000, and it has lasted some 16 years, did both 1-4 and 2-5 gear sets, and did NOT baby it afterwards. I didn't abuse it, but wasn't afraid of doing the occasional wheelie, a few drag strip runs, as well as many rally rides all along the eastern part of the country.

This last year regrettably AFTER I did my marathon rebuild and frame swap.....and then rode it to the SouthEast rally, the 1st gear skip reared it's ugly head again. I estimated that I had about 50K miles on the tranny when I did the first repair. And I estimate that have put some 25+K miles on it since then. I will say that I did NOT perform the washer swap at the time of the initial repair. Don't know if I'll do it when I perform this repair again. The gears engage and stay engaged quite well when they are undercut. It's just the shifting in and out of gears, especially the neutral to 1st shift when stopped that puts the wear on the ends/edges of the dogs/slots, not once they are engaged, and that's all the washer swap does is allow a little more depth of engagement.

As Marty said, it would be nice to have the gears rehardened after the dremmeling, but that's a bit extreme and probably $$ as well. And the original gears were case hardened and they still wear down, so not sure how effective rehardening them would be. Just wish they had acted up BEFORE I did the engine/frame swap, would have been easier to work on it at that time, than after I had it all back together!

Due to my aging back/ previous lower back surgery, and the fact that it's really easier to work/put the gears/shiftforks back into the tranny with it on it's back and gravity to help me, I'll be flipping it on it's back again! I'll be sure to take some photos to see/show the wear on the dogs/slots, but it doesn't take much to make them skip, and it's more difficult to grind the lands on the 1st gear wheel due to it being a solid gear/not slotted like the 2nd gear land/slots.

SO....for a first timer, and doing the washer swap, the gear set is even more difficult to put back into the tranny, and trying to do it right side up makes it much more difficult...IMHO, so I do highly suggest flipping the bike.

T.C.

[motoman]

Either direction of bike works fine, least did for me some 7-8yrs. ago.
Did the tranny fix with bike on centerstand as I couldn't see doing all that work pulling the Venturers tour pac. Centerstand on a short block of 4"x4" in order for it to set up higher and blocked front wheel removed exhaust system and oil pan. Advantage to not having oil dripping on me was I vigorously sprayed Brak-Kleen up inside gear box and let it set that way for a couple weeks before starting work on it. Blocked in front of front wheel to counter act any rolling off centerstand having blocks under ceterstand to raise bike higher. Definitely helped to have a garage with the space to just let it set with oil pan off till I mustered up the ambition.
Up-right advantage was everything fell into place going backtogether without having to fish for something that dropped too far had it been upsidedown. Gravity was the BETTER friend doing repair with bike upright.
Plus, everything was orienented correct direction being upright.
The direction option Greg(BA80) used would be my only other option.........hanging bike from garage rafter or similar scenario to hang bike from bar-end of bike.

[red bandit]

Is it possible to do it with the bike laying on it's side?

[motoman]

Is it possible to do it with the bike laying on it's side?

Not likely as you need access to both sides.......at the same time.

[Bigfoot]

I have done this fix several times with the bike on the centerstand. It is easier with the bike on a lift, but can be done on the ground easy enough.

[BhamminXS]

thanks again for all of your advice, unfortunately im more inclined to not do this myself, its intimidating and im already in a bad way spinal issues and all. If taken to a shop what could i reasonably expect to have to pay to have this done i have neither the garage, lift or ability to flip this behemoth by myself, and would it then be more cost effective to replace the whole transmission. Im in no hurry both because i am unable to spend a lot of money and because i am new to the area and so far have had nothing but bad interactions with a couple of local shops to sub this job out but i dont see another option at the moment. ugh, I think ill follow suit of the other fella having this issue and have a beer, no i need a stronger drink for this headache, devils cut here i come..

[motoman]

Don't let this tranny fix intimidate you. Problem with taking bike to a shop is...and would be my bet that a bike shop's personnel this day in age would NOT have a clue how to even CORRECTLY fix anything on these ole' scoots let alone do a tranny fix! You'd more than likely just get some real spacey looks and a lot of BS, like "engine has to be removed and cases spit", on and on,etc. We've had many here on the site over the years do the tranny fix themselves, and many of those before starting barely knew 'lefty loosey, righty tighty'. Seriously though, you REALLY need to do this work yourself. It will also give you a better understanding of the whole bike. If you think you gotta' take it to a bike shop for issues..........shoulda' got yourself a newer fuel injected, computerized scoot of some sort. That basicly is what it comes down to. You can't go out and by a 35yr. old bike of any sort, then expect a bike shop to know how to CORRECTLY work on them.......ain't gonna happen my friend. Besides, the knowledge and help here, if you ask will run circles around any bike shop tech. Ask and you will receive.....here.

[BhamminXS]

moto I totally get where your coming from and i just didnt get into detail as to why i pondered a shop. Its certainly not because i dont think i can do it on a intellectual basis, its because im a disabled combat vet with ruptured C 3,4, 5,6, and broken L 5,6,7 in my back , 22 spinal surgeries and 18 maxiofacial surgeries. I would love to be able to do a lot of things but circumstances prevent most of the things i enjoy. And believe me i abhor shops and the seemingly increasing lack of knowledge and probably wont go that route but I want to ride and dont really care to have to skip shift sll the time. I dont just own this old bike i own several and ive been the only one to do any work on all of them since i bought them, i just have learned how to say i cant after so many years of being a i can man. I figure ill probably save up so i can purchase a already done tranny. might take me a few months being on a fixed income but i do what and how i can.

[BA80]

There should be an XSive in your area that could handle the issue with a little compensation for the effort. If I wasn't 500 miles away I would do it.

Best I could do is sell you a set already ground and ready to install.

[jetmechmarty]

I concur. This is not your bike if unable to work on it. Option B if you really love it would be to ship it to an XSive willing to do it, like Greg.

[TopCatGr58]

Just to add more info for you, from your description about getting new tranny and swapping it out isn't that easy. The Tranny isn't a separate bolt on assembly like on Harleys, they are an integral part of the engine/crankcase assembly, and will still require flipping the bike, or removing the engine from the frame to be able to swap out the preground gear sets.

Instead of shipping the bike, you say that you can actually ride it, but have to skip 2nd gear to get past the skipping gear, so perhaps you could take a trip to Greg's place, and then he and possibly some other local Xsives will make a weekend out of it and fix it while you're there, you just buy the beer! Helping fellow Xsives it what we're about, not to mention a fellow serviceman who's served our country! Just wish I was close enough to pitch in!

T.C.

[madmax-im]

Please...whatever you do...DO NOT take it to some fly by night shop...they'll be clueless while they FUBAR it and charge you an arm and a leg...
I too was intimidated by this...I had two XSives come to my rescue...Randy and TC. My bike was flipped both times...inaddition to removing the gas tank and draining the engine oil...dont forget to drain the middle and final drives as well...Good luck... BTW BHAM...Thankyou for your service !

[BhamminXS]

All of your points are valid and I agree as I stated I never wanted to do the service tech thing and ive always worked on "MY" bikes or with help from friends, people I trusted, and I trust the opinions of the members here as it's always honest and spot on. If greg is willing, bet the beer is on me Abs to be honest I could use a ride. If yout would PM we'll work this out and again thank you guys for keeping my head straight, I sometimes let the pain on my back make me be a pain in the ass!

[BA80]

We could do it when it warms up enough to make the trip. I could probably get some other XSives to come help. Maybe even TC would make the trip for a fellow XSive and veteran.

Let me know and I'll get a set ready to drop in. It normally doesn't take more than 4 - 5 hours. I have a big garage and tools.

Not really set up for guests but something could be worked out