Second gear - tranny swap or 2nd gear fix

[BhamminXS]

Would like the opinions of more experienced 1100 owners purchasing a 80 xs1100 in the next couple of days from another member who has been more than up front on the issues the bike has, the most pressing in my mind is the 2nd gear issue so prevalent in these bikes. My question then is this the member selling me this bike indicated that I might be able to just swap out the transmission with one that had already had the fix applied by more seasoned persons who may have one they'd be willing to part with if one should come available would it be more prudent to go ahead and swap out the transmission or just fix the one that's already in the bike. Your opinions please. Thank you.

[IanDMacDonald]

If it was me, I'd swap-out the whole engine, and roll with the dice. Never done any tranny work on them though, that's the only reason I say that. But, I have done engine work (including engine swaps) with ease.

[BhamminXS]

The thing is finding an affordable engine worth swapping out for that is a good enough reason to replace a seemingly good engine with just 2nd gear issues. I mean from all accounts I've heard the fix for the problem isn't that bad which is why I was asking if replacing the whole gear assembly would be worth while I'd someone else had already done the fix

[kboehringer]

Swap the washer.

swap out the transmission with one that had already had the fix.

BhamminXS,
The gain/advantage of one over the other is minimal. You would be elbow deep into the trans for either with almost identical amount of work.

I have repaired several of these and it would be MY OPINION that you pull the current gears and inspect them if there is minimal wear "Swap the washer" and put it back together. It's NOT that big of a deal. There is IN MY OPINION no promise/guarantee that some other motor would be better. It could be worse! All of these bikes (it would seem) are going to have this issue at one time either some sooner, some later.

I PERSONALLY don't perform any grinding or Dremel work on the gears. I had one set of gears in one of my 11's that were in horrible condition. I bought a scrap motor (had been sitting outside in the elements for many years), I stole the gears from it and swapped the washer. Running like a charm ever since. If you pull yours out and find bad damage you can get some help making a decision or deciding on a path at that time.

The "Washer Move" will likely take an entire day to accomplish on your first XS11. I believe I could do this work on one of mine, having done it several times, in less than half of that.

Again, others will respond with their preferences which will likely differ from mine.

Sincerely,

[madmax-im]

The dremel fix has been done many times by many members here..i had this issue with my XJ1100 maxim...but at that time the factory backcut gears were still available from Yamaha..that have since become unavailable...Like Kurt i never wanted to do the dremel fix...I did swap the washer over but then i swapped out the old gearsets for new ones... not the cheap option by any means. BUT...they'll never have that issue again...whereas with the dremel fix...you might have the issue re-appear again...YMMV

[madmax-im]

If it was me, I'd swap-out the whole engine, and roll with the dice. Never done any tranny work on them though, that's the only reason I say that. But, I have done engine work (including engine swaps) with ease.

Not a wise move IMO

[BhamminXS]

Gentlemen once again the value of these forums shows itself with valuable insight that I intend to utilize. I'll go with the if it ain't broke method and do the fix hoping that's all it will require, if at that time there is another problem that arises then I will address it. I had done a 2nd gear fix on my 850 and think it's big brother shouldn't provide that much of a difference and hopefully a headache as well. Again thank you for all who responded I appreciate your involvement no matter.

[BA80]

I've done several fixes on these bikes. Haven't had one fail again yet.

I would advise that if you do dremel 2nd go ahead and clean up the dogs and slots on 1st gear also. Got burned that way a couple times before I learned.

[motoman]

I've done several fixes on these bikes. Haven't had one fail again yet.

I would advise that if you do dremel 2nd go ahead and clean up the dogs and slots on 1st gear also. Got burned that way a couple times before I learned.

Totally agree! Do ALL the dogs and slots on all the associated gears first time apart!

[jetmechmarty]

I do not deny that these guys are telling it straight up, but I'm in Kurt's camp. I bought new gears for mine and never looked back. I believe that if I had to machine them, I'd want a precision job followed by case hardening. That's me and how I roll. Fix it right, fix it once. Once again I'm not denying that some of these guys go forever on a Dremel fix. Some folks will butcher them as well.

[ERM83]

I've done several fixes on these bikes. Haven't had one fail again yet.

I would advise that if you do dremel 2nd go ahead and clean up the dogs and slots on 1st gear also. Got burned that way a couple times before I learned.

Man, I think I'm gonna have to do this to my SG soon. It's only slipped a few times (been riding that thing RELENTLESSLY since brought back to life in August), but I can see it coming. Oh - it'll just slip out of 4th gear sometimes as well?! Some days more than others...hasn't happened in a month or so.

When I got my SF last April, I did a TON of research; joined this board. I saw the OTHER board, found out about this fix, and kind of have been dreading it. I've got 33,000 on the SG, and about 30,000 on the SF...figure it's about time to do that, anyway. What's the best way to do this fix...a lift, the flip the bike upside down method (I'm a little sketched out by that)??? I personally like Greg's method...he just basically hung the thing from the rafters in his garage, haha. If the garage that I use had reliable rafters, I'd DEFINITELY do that. That method was crafty, easier on the back, yet freakin' hilarious! THAT'S THE WAY TO BE.

Not a wise move IMO

yep, you'll EVENTUALLY have to do the same fix as well, so STRAP IN on the engine you have! I'll be right right there with you soon, Bham...debating on new gears, or the dremel fix. I'll need some beers for the dremel fix if I do it...I'm an anxious / squirrely dude, and can't have your hands shaking all over the place doing a fix like that!!

Last thing: speaking of new engines, I'm looking for one for my SF actually....

[kboehringer]

SUGGESTION: Stop driving it and fix it.

It's only slipped a few times (been riding that thing RELENTLESSLY since brought back to life in August)

....SNIP....

debating on new gears

ERM83 & BhamminXS,
If you've noticed the problem, it is time TO STOP DRIVING IT! Fix it! You can't buy "NEW" gears they are no longer available. The best you can hope for is to PRESERVE what you have or HOPE TO FIND some nice used ones.

As stated previously, I've done this fix a few times. The one complete garbage set of gears I found in my "Mayberry" were clearly damaged from continuous use by the previous owner after the problem reared its ugly head. My "Dead Duck" slipped once or twice and I immediately made the "Washer Swap". This Dead Duck has not slipped once since! After the onset of this problem, damage is quick and irreversible. If you continue to drive it you WILL BE looking for replacements.

It is NOT that difficult a procedure. There are only a couple tools needed beyond the very basics (snap ring pliers, torx bits, etc.) Check TC's great and very detailed write up. Make sure you have those few tools handy when you start!

Flip or Not to Flip.
There are some STRONG opinions on both sides of this question. Some opinions expressed may come from folks that have not actually done the work with their own hands. I have personally done it BOTH ways.

The first job was upside down. In order to flip the bike, all the controls, tank, etc. had to be removed. I struggled to flip it without damage and then too re-flip it back up again once done. I did this basically alone with only my wife to assist. The gear work was EASY with a perfect view. I used old bent handlebars for my flip and suggest you do the same if you choose this method.

My subsequent repairs we done right side up from below. I confused myself at first as the first repair was opposite. I had NO method of elevating the bike so I had my head under the bike with minimal room to look/see. Stunk in some ways but definitely overall easier IN MY OPINION. If you have the rafters to lift the bike from and keep the machine steady (or some other method of lifting it), it is a no-brainer to do it this way and would be MUCH easier (again in MY OPINION) than flipping the bike upside down.

Respectfully,

[jetmechmarty]

[BA80]

I've done it flipped and I've done it with the bike hanging. My masochism isn't strong enough to try it on my back.

The easiest way, I think, is to flip the bike. Just pull the oil pan first so if there is any debris in the bottom of the pan it won't end up way up in the engine.

[ERM83]

Damn...well, I know what my weekend is looking like now...covered in oil, ignoring the general population, and more than likely sleepless. Just worked on the bike throughout the night...I'm going to sleep like a rock later. I gotta look this fix up before I crash out...