THOUGHT I only had one more question...(coil swap wiring question)

[ERM83]

About to prep my new Accel coils...hit a weird block, and need some help!

here's what the wiring looks like (it NEEDS to be cleaned up, I know):



I know that the red/white is the ballast resistor, which is being bypassed. Here's what i'm working with...I kind of got these off in a hurry, being that it was starting to rain here and I wanted to cover the bike back up, and test the resistance/get a head start on the whole process...



the black/white is part of one of the secondary firing wires, yeah?! the wiring has OBVIOUSLY been screwed with, and i plan on rewiring as close to original coloring as possible. my question is...I don't see any other plugs besides the two that are for the firing of the secondary wires. with the accel wires, i also know that it doesn't matter which post you hook them up to...+, or -. am i being an idiot?? I feel like if i'd make the two connections then put the twist-connector on, THEN plug it in to the gray/orange wires, it would REALLY jack things up??? Electrical things on bikes...certainly my biggest weakness/completely ignorant towards. I just figured out why the coil crapped out in the first place, and i DEFINITELY need to take my time on working with the electrical system....HATING MYSELF RIGHT NOW!

[3Phase]

Erm, the only stock Black/White wire is for the Tipover switch, it runs from the TCI to kill the engine if the bike, uh, tips over.

Here's a color schematic for your Special, it should help you figure out the wire colors!


Colored Wiring Diagrams

[ERM83]

Thank you, scott!

Erm, the only stock Black/White wire is for the Tipover switch, it runs from the TCI to kill the engine if the bike, uh, tips over.

Here's a color schematic for your Special, it should help you figure out the wire colors!


Colored Wiring Diagrams

Here's my question, though...do i just splice the wires coming from the two
coil posts together, THEN plug them into the single orange and grey wires respectively??? or, does one from each coil straight-up just go to the red/white circuit (still being that the ballast is bypassed)??

Eric

[ERM83]

I guess my question really is:

i have the dark blue wire on one coil, then the grey one on the other. those are the ones that are the different firing wires?! SO, when you plug the ballast plugs together, do you still need to connect wires to the UNUSED posts on the NEW coil to the double-red/white clip (to the far right, with the cover still on the end) before it goes to the ballast resistor?? I'm SO CLOSE to being able to ride again...I know these may be stupid questions, but this is my first time working on these coils, and i DO NOT want to burn those, OR the TCI. I just don't know if the wires from the posts get spliced together, or they both go to the red/white combo,OR if by some weird chance their not uses (?!), etc. Just trying to be careful!

[3Phase]

Here's my question, though...do i just splice the wires coming from the two
coil posts together, THEN plug them into the single orange and grey wires respectively??? or, does one from each coil straight-up just go to the red/white circuit (still being that the ballast is bypassed)??

Eric

Eric,


The Red/White wire is the positive wire for both coils, it comes from the 10A Ignition fuse.

The Orange and Gray wires are the negative wires for the individual coils with the Orange for 1&4, Gray for 2&3.

A few crimp-on butt-splice connectors and some tape would let you use the coils with the existing wiring harness terminals and colors you can see in your first picture. It would be better than twisting the wires together with wire nuts but do whatever you have to do to make it run, it's not a beauty contest, man, it's supposed to be fun!

No, it doesn't really matter which of the coil primary wires you use for positive and negative but it's like saying it doesn't matter which side of a washer faces up or down. Sure, you can go either way and it'll wash but if you can't tell how it should go right off the bat without too much drama, don't touch any of my stuff!

[ERM83]

thank you again!!

the thing that threw me off was the use of the white wire / other colored wires / the splice, especially. SO, the white wire being used (referring to the picture of the old coils on my couch armrest ) was basically the replacement for the orange or white wire?? Also, about the positive wires on the new coils (despite the color used): I DO PLUG THEM BOTH into the OTHER red/white wire receptacle (one with the rubber cover still on it...the one to the far right still on the bike)? like I said...just making sure. I really should've taken a picture quick. Didn't realize I was dealing with a makeshift rewire, and I was doing this shortly after dark! Live and Learn, for sure. I'm just glad that i'll be able to pass this knowledge on eventually, thanks to everyone's help!

Eric

[ERM83]

ohhhhh, damn it....

SORRY....read your post while doing other things, and didn't process it. IGNORE MY LAST POST!!

[3Phase]

SORRY....read your post while doing other things, and didn't process it. IGNORE MY LAST POST!!

It's all right, you're having fun! Don't stress out or you will mess something up!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Eric,

Scott's got you well in hand. But your comment about the ballast resistor bothered me.

Here's a photo from a tech tip....


This shows the BR on the left side of the engine, and it'll have a 2 prong connector to the harness. That's connector is what you want/need to put a jumper on...or splice together on the harness itself to perform the bypass. The clip should be a rectangular plastic type plug.

The one you showed with the clear plastic cover uses BULLET type connectors to provide the 12V+ to each coils primary. And then like Scott said, you will need a wire for the gray one for one coil, and another wire for the orange one for the other coil. The Gray and Orange wires are the triggers for the TCI. The Red/White dual connector supplies the 12V+ power for the coils, and so that's why they can be connected to a common single supply source.

I know this is rather late, hopefully you've already completed the wiring and have installed the coils and fired it up by now!?

T.C.

[ERM83]

Hey Eric,

I know this is rather late, hopefully you've already completed the wiring and have installed the coils and fired it up by now!?

T.C.

...I put the coils in...wired everything up correctly. Well, at first I accidentally switched the secondary wires for 3-4...that backfire scared the crap out of me, and probably my entire apartment complex.

Once that was out of the way (MAN I feel dumb for doing that), hit start...first time I hit it, it turned, then the starter (I think it was?!) just whirred and then stopped. hit the button again, and BAM - started right up. choke on, obviously. HOWEVER...after idling for literally about 30 seconds, the SAME PROBLEM happened. The engine had a hiccup / "TCH" noise, then just dies. The "TCH" thing has actually been a recurring thing on warm-up, but only does it once usually, then sporadic, yet often slight popping out of the left side. now when it happens, the engine just loses power and dies within about 5-7 seconds. I'm REALLY bummed that I didn't get to ride it today...I was going to go out tonight on it (monday / tuesdays are basically my "weekend"), but...nope.

after the engine died, i looked at everything VERY CLOSELY to make sure nothing was out of whack...looked totally fine. Then i went to start it again...it turned a bit, then made the whirring noise again. I didn't attempt another start, because the last time the whirring happened, i heard a shotgun blast...haha. I know i had the secondaries switched that time, but out of paranoia, i didn't attempt another start. it was already 11:30pm.

I've been researching the symptoms on here...not really convinced that it's the pickup coil wires. I didn't even twist the throttle when it was running, and the SAME SYMPTOM came about.

the carbs were pristine when I checked them, and while I had them out I cleaned them...why not, right?? No clogged passages.

my fuel lines and tank are fine...no blockages there

I'm at a complete loss...I have off tomorrow, and am going to check the pickup wires / try to start it first to see what happens. this is a strange one...it HAS TO be an electrical problem. however, in the other thread I'd stated that when this was happening with the old coils, all the headers were hot as all get out, minus cyl. #4.

I haven't ridden in about 3 weeks, and I'm LOSING MY MIND. I WAS SO STOKED TO RIDE TONIGHT....

[motoman]

...I put the coils in...wired everything up correctly. Well, at first I accidentally switched the secondary wires for 3-4...that backfire scared the crap out of me, and probably my entire apartment complex.

Once that was out of the way (MAN I feel dumb for doing that), hit start...first time I hit it, it turned, then the starter (I think it was?!) just whirred and then stopped. hit the button again, and BAM - started right up. choke on, obviously. HOWEVER...after idling for literally about 30 seconds, the SAME PROBLEM happened. The engine had a hiccup / "TCH" noise, then just dies. The "TCH" thing has actually been a recurring thing on warm-up, but only does it once usually, then sporadic, yet often slight popping out of the left side. now when it happens, the engine just loses power and dies within about 5-7 seconds. I'm REALLY bummed that I didn't get to ride it today...I was going to go out tonight on it (monday / tuesdays are basically my "weekend"), but...nope.

after the engine died, i looked at everything VERY CLOSELY to make sure nothing was out of whack...looked totally fine. Then i went to start it again...it turned a bit, then made the whirring noise again. I didn't attempt another start, because the last time the whirring happened, i heard a shotgun blast...haha. I know i had the secondaries switched that time, but out of paranoia, i didn't attempt another start. it was already 11:30pm.

I've been researching the symptoms on here...not really convinced that it's the pickup coil wires. I didn't even twist the throttle when it was running, and the SAME SYMPTOM came about.

the carbs were pristine when I checked them, and while I had them out I cleaned them...why not, right?? No clogged passages.

my fuel lines and tank are fine...no blockages there

I'm at a complete loss...I have off tomorrow, and am going to check the pickup wires / try to start it first to see what happens. this is a strange one...it HAS TO be an electrical problem. however, in the other thread I'd stated that when this was happening with the old coils, all the headers were hot as all get out, minus cyl. #4.

I haven't ridden in about 3 weeks, and I'm LOSING MY MIND. I WAS SO STOKED TO RIDE TONIGHT....

Likely one of pick-up coil wires is broken internally, under insulation. Pull left side ignition cover off and using both hands, tug right smartly every inch of whole wire. Insulation stretches....... broken wires internally. My bet is the white wire is the culprit. Second one could be the blue wire broken internally.
If that be the case, first cut the wire, slip a tiny piece of shrink tubing over one of the wires. Carefully strip a short insulation piece off both wires. Use a short(or cut it short) piece of non insulated butt connector and crimp it on both wire ends. Slip shrink tubing over repair and heat shrink it. Install ignition cover and that'll resolve the electrikery issue to whatever plug isn't firing properly. Remember, stretching each wire every inch will find the break internally........just looking at them as you stated doesn't work.

[ERM83]

Likely one of pick-up coil wires is broken internally, under insulation. Pull left side ignition cover off and using both hands, tug right smartly every inch of whole wire. Insulation stretches....... broken wires internally. My bet is the white wire is the culprit. Second one could be the blue wire broken internally.
If that be the case, first cut the wire, slip a tiny piece of shrink tubing over one of the wires. Carefully strip a short insulation piece off both wires. Use a short(or cut it short) piece of non insulated butt connector and crimp it on both wire ends. Slip shrink tubing over repair and heat shrink it. Install ignition cover and that'll resolve the electrikery issue to whatever plug isn't firing properly. Remember, stretching each wire every inch will find the break internally........just looking at them as you stated doesn't work.

I haven't checked them yet, but...aren't they hooked up to the advance mechanism?? I thought they wouldn't be the problem, being that it happens during idle???

....as I was finishing typing the above response, I realized that those wires are constantly exposed to engine heat. I've dropped the ball on this thread (AND MANY OTHERS) too many times... thanks moto...i'm actually going to go yank the cover off right now! I'm basically on the "graveyard shift" sleep schedule, so...might as well check it out!

Also, it's warming up here as the night goes on / morning comes?! It's 47 here, which is RIDING WEATHER AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED! My temperature cutoff is around 27F...as long as it isn't THAT cold, snowing or pouring, then I'M RIDING. No joke!

[motoman]

I haven't checked them yet, but...aren't they hooked up to the advance mechanism?? I thought they wouldn't be the problem, being that it happens during idle???

....as I was finishing typing the above response, I realized that those wires are constantly exposed to engine heat. I've dropped the ball on this thread (AND MANY OTHERS) too many times... thanks moto...i'm actually going to go yank the cover off right now! I'm basically on the "graveyard shift" sleep schedule, so...might as well check it out!

Also, it's warming up here as the night goes on / morning comes?! It's 47 here, which is RIDING WEATHER AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED! My temperature cutoff is around 27F...as long as it isn't THAT cold, snowing or pouring, then I'M RIDING. No joke!

As for the pick-up wires, heat isn't really the issue. The advance assembly rotation constantly moves those wires back and forth, which can eventually break those teeny internal wires. Timing advance, moving those wires can allow internal wire contact, but not constantly.

[ERM83]

As for the pick-up wires, heat isn't really the issue. The advance assembly rotation constantly moves those wires back and forth, which can eventually break those teeny internal wires. Timing advance, moving those wires can allow internal wire contact, but not constantly.

So, they do actually move even during idle?? I actually bought a timing light to check my slight popping, but never got around to doing it, thus my ignorance towards our subject at hand!

I thought my popping / "TCH" noise, followed by a quarter-second engine dropout may have been a timing issue, but...maybe this is the solution?? I just got my tools together...time to get on this! Will report back, and THANK YOU ALL for your help!! I'll be PSYCHED to give the same help when I fully know my way around these beasts!!!

[ERM83]

Motoman with the win...

YEP...definitely was one of the pickup coil wires...the red one. Luckily I already had some crimps, so I patched'er up, checked the carbs one last time, primed it...fired RIGHT UP! I let it run for a good 7 minutes, just to make sure it wasn't going to crap out on me again.

The throttle response now is freakin' off the wall...my neighbors were looking at me as if I was insane (...they're probably not too far off...) because I was cackling about the bike's response. Gonna tak'er for a rip up the street to home depot...next up is re-plumbing everything!

I seriously haven't slept yet...don't know if i'll be able to now!! I just wanted the bike back up running...couldn't stop working on it!!

Thanks for the help, everyone!!!