Long overdue update

[sethhope]

Howdy xsive xs'ers!
I dont remember what I last posted here, but I'll recap just in case.
So about early September, my bike back fired on start, broke my (already probably broken) tensioner, skipped time, and stopped running. After towing it home, i got a new tensioner (thanks, eastcoaster) and fixed the timing. Once everything was back together, i tried to kick it over and... nothing. Zero compression on ALL cylinders. Now the engine never made a full revolution once the chain jumped as it was on startup, so i figured that having ALL valves being bent or screwed up was almost impossible. That and i was hearing all the compression escaping through the intake valves.
The bike was running perfectly before all of this, and only died after one backfire... this frustrated me to no end, so i gave up until winter where i would be calm and not screw things up due to anger.

Well the winter is upon me, and im back to work on Roxy. I removed the head and was mildly horrified at what i found. Thick carbon deposits on everything. None of the intake valves are closing due to the buildup. I want to get them out and relapped and cleaned, but I dont have a valve compressor, and I dont really know what Im doing. I have the repair manual for the bike, so I can read through the procedure, but Im still a little nervous. I cant afford new valves if i screw these up. Any advice from the pros would be greatly appreciated.

I also called the local powersports shop and they quoted me for 200ish to get the valves done if the head is already off... is that too high? About average?

Thanks guys!

P.s. pics of where im at in the job

[Fields11789]

i can't chime in about diagnosing your engine problem but I'm sure the gurus on here certainly will!
With regards to removing the valves, you need to get a valve spring compressor. You can pick up a cheap one on eBay which should do the job. Removing the valves is not terrible hard however you need to label everything that comes off the head intake 1234 or exhaust 1234. If you muddle them up it can change clearances and other problems. Also make sure you don't lose the valve spring seats (washer underneath valve springs)
While you've got the head off you can lap the valves Probably will want to replace the seals as well. Check the valves for excessive side to side movement inside the guides and that they move in and out of the guides freely.
But hey if you've got the money and can take it to a shop do it. If you've never done the job before there are some things that can go wrong. It might save you a lot of time money and stress for the sake of a couple hundred dollars. Although that sounds a bit high if they're just going to lap the valves and clean the head.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Seth,

Well, I hate to say it but yes, you can see carbon/corrosion around the valve shafts looking thru the intake/exhaust ports, but the valves...at least/probably 3 of them were closed before you started to try to start it, so the carbon would not have developed/formed on the shafts to prevent them from closing once opened by the cam lobes. IT takes very little pressure to bend the heads of the valves especially when both the intake and exhaust valves try to occupy the same space at the same time due to the incorrect valve/cam chain timing/slipped chain!

SO.....most likely the valves really are bent just enough just below the heads to prevent them from sliding all the way back into the head with the cams out. $200.00 bucks is about right, at $75.00/hour mech rate...that's actually cheap, but will not include replacing of damaged parts. I forgot to check your bike year/model before starting to post. Yea, if it's a 78-79 the valves are unobtainium. The 80-81's are possibly a little easier to acquire. But folks often just get a replacement head/valves off of eBay or such.

You can use a large C-clamp from Harbor Freight, and make an adapter for the valve spring/keeper portion out of some pipe, cutting a slot to allow access to the valve keepers. IT's easier if you weld the pipe to the screwing end of the C-clamp. Once you get the springs off, you can then just spin the valves in the head and you will be able to see the wobble of the valve head very easily which will confirm their bent status.

Here's an image borrowed from Kurt's Ugly/dead duck thread, he put the adapter on the Clamp end, guess he thought it was easier to keep the screw/swivel end on the head of the valve. With the C-clamp I had, I put the solid clamp head against the valve head! YMMV. The slot cut out of the pipe needs to be about a 1/3 circle to help keep the pipe stable against the valve spring cap and still allow access to the keepers.



This is a slightly different approach by Trbig/Tod.
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35575

I unknowingly bent a valve during my 2000 rebuild, put the whole engine together only to find no compression in 1 cylinder, had to tear it all the way back down to find it. Looked okay in the head, but after removing springs, the wobble was obvious.

Good Luck.

T.C.

[Eastcoaster]

Here you go

Seth
Here's what I can do for you. I have a 79 head complete in excellent condition
It is a prized possession Your enthusiasm in the xs1100 is greatly recognized by me and I am sure others at your young age

It's yours for no charge I will be at the PA house today after 4 and all day tomorrow come get it it's yours

I think some of the guys can point you in the right direction for a new head gasket

Happy New Year

[sethhope]

Seth
Here's what I can do for you. I have a 79 head complete in excellent condition
It is a prized possession Your enthusiasm in the xs1100 is greatly recognized by me and I am sure others at your young age

It's yours for no charge I will be at the PA house today after 4 and all day tomorrow come get it it's yours

I think some of the guys can point you in the right direction for a new head gasket

Happy New Year

Wow... i really appreciate your generosity, Eastcoaster. I can stop by after 4 today. As for the head gasket, i already ordered a full gasket set for my bike. I figured ill do almost everything while i have it apart for the winter.

[Bonz]

Since you have that most generous offer for a head, you won't need this possibly. However here is the valve spring compressor tool I have. You can't make one for less.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Valve-Sp...136738&vxp=mtr

With that said I have the head off of my ZRX 1200 installing double valve springs (help control valves with the higher lift ZZR 1200 cams already in there and allow 1,000 rpm more up top with ZX11 ignitor) and higher compression pistons. Take it step-by-step and you should have no problem if you decide to redo your head for the sake of doing it.

The valves are a very hard steel. I took a pick and scraped the bigger pieces carbon off the back of the intake valves then took a brass brush to finish getting off the rest. I also pre-soaked them in a gallon can of Berrymans carb dip which softened things up overnight.

[skids]

Since you have that most generous offer for a head, you won't need this possibly. However here is the valve spring compressor tool I have. You can't make one for less.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Valve-Sp...136738&vxp=mtr

Wow, that is a good looking tool set for $16 !

[Bonz]

The guys on the ZRX form are always upgrading pistons and putting in double valve springs to raise the RPM limit. This tool is very popular over on that forum.

[3Phase]

Works great!

Since you have that most generous offer for a head, you won't need this possibly. However here is the valve spring compressor tool I have. You can't make one for less. [...]

Thanks, Bonz!

It probably won't be as fast for Matt over in Europe but this puppy arrived three days after I ordered it on New Year's Day from that eBay link:-


XS11.com Forums > Idle Talk Forum > Product Evaluations >
eBay Valve Spring Compressor the 30mm adapter

[Ranger_xs1100]

Thanks Bonz for the tool tip!.
I ordered one on Jan 1 and it arrived today.
It looks good...and for $15.95 I think it is going to be soooooo much nicer to use than my PIA home made $5 plumbing aisle copper fitting!

[sethhope]

Gaskets came in the mail today. Gonna fit it all tonight and see how that head does. Fingers crossed it fixes my problems

[Eastcoaster]

Take your time

Seth
Take your time line everything up follow the torque pattern check and double check everything especially the alignment.
If you need anything let me know.
Keep us posted!

[sethhope]

Alright. Ive been up all night working on roxy trying to get her all back together. Once i got the cams on, i kicked the Kickstart and it *felt* like I had compression (at least ALOT more than I did before ). This was a good sign. Once the cam cover was on and the battery back in, i hit the starter and... *whirrrrrrr*... just spins the engine... doesn't sound like its even ATTEMPTING a compression stroke on ANY cylinder... so my question to all of you... am I missing something? Am I just unlucky and somehow screwed the new head? Is there something amiss with my pistons? What's going on here??

[MPittma100]

No Compression?

Alright. Ive been up all night working on roxy trying to get her all back together. Once i got the cams on, i kicked the Kickstart and it *felt* like I had compression (at least ALOT more than I did before ). This was a good sign. Once the cam cover was on and the battery back in, i hit the starter and... *whirrrrrrr*... just spins the engine... doesn't sound like its even ATTEMPTING a compression stroke on ANY cylinder... so my question to all of you... am I missing something? Am I just unlucky and somehow screwed the new head? Is there something amiss with my pistons? What's going on here??

Have you adjusted valve lash? Are the spark plugs in the head? Are the cams in time? Do you have a compression gauge? You will be smart to rotate the engine by hand until you verify valve timing is correct. Using the starter will bend valves if out of time.

[Bonz]

Yes, are the spark plugs in? Silly question, but needs asking!

Good deal on the tool guys, glad the link was helpful!