Kickin' it old school... or trying

[AggiesaurusRex]

So does anyone know if the main kicker shaft (#9 the one that travels internally behind the small internal cover) is supposed to be basically free moving? I've already checked and I can see a gear behind the small internal cover, but there's almost no pressure needed to spin it. It's like its not engaging anything. Am I missing something? I cant find anything on the parts diagram that I don't have (except the ratchet gear and the washers, parts #10, 12, 13, 14) but surely that's not the way its supposed to be spinning? I have the engine out of the bike right now, if I spin the kicker shaft in any gear in has no effect on the shaft drive, so something can't be right.

[motoman]

The hole being plugged was OEM on the 80 and later models....no kick-starter.
So, free spinning shaft as you've stated is normal. A lot of pieces needed were intentionally left out. Needed pieces for the most part require engine cases to be split.
Those that have choosen to install a kick-starter I'm sure will chime in as to the process in order to have an operational kick-starter.

[kboehringer]

Broken Photo Link



AggiesaurusRex,
The link to your photo is broken. Is the photo above what you are referring to?

I've installed the complete kicker assembly on two of my '80 XS11's. Although some have had different experience, I have taken apart 5+ '80 XS11 motors and all have had SOME of the parts installed (12, 15, 4, 16, 4, 17) were all in the motors I disassembled. Parts: 5, 10, 11, 13, 14 were all missing as well as the obvious complete kicker 1-9 assembly. Frequently I see folks on Evil-Bay peddling the 1-9 assembly but that's only a small portion of the parts needed for the entire assembly.

When installing the 1-9 assembly, the spring must be pre-loaded and the notch on the rear properly seated. This MAY be what you are having an issue with? The gear on #9 engages #11.

Also, parts #13 & #14 are somewhat difficult to find/buy. The spring steel clip must be inserted in a slot at the bottom of #12. If you ASSUMED those pieces were behind #12, which I have personally never seen in an '80, you could be getting the same "do nothing" result. The gear #11 and retaining clip and washer have also been missing from every '80 XS11 motor I've taken apart.

Hopefully, the drawing I provided will allow you to give more details as your number don't match the drawing I provided above.

Sincerely,

[kboehringer]

Needed pieces for the most part require engine cases to be split.

FYI. It is absolutely NOT necessary EVER to SPLIT CASES to install the kicker assy. BTDT! EVERY piece can be installed WITHOUT splitting the cases PERIOD! Yes. that would include the '81 that has NOTHING installed. Every piece can be put in EVERY bike without a case being split. HOWEVER, it is comparable to a 2nd gear washer swap event to get the rear gear into the center of the cases area for those bikes with nothing in there BTDT.

[BA80]

So does anyone know if the main kicker shaft (#9 the one that travels internally behind the small internal cover) is supposed to be basically free moving? I've already checked and I can see a gear behind the small internal cover, but there's almost no pressure needed to spin it. It's like its not engaging anything. Am I missing something? I cant find anything on the parts diagram that I don't have (except the ratchet gear and the washers, parts #10, 12, 13, 14) but surely that's not the way its supposed to be spinning? I have the engine out of the bike right now, if I spin the kicker shaft in any gear in has no effect on the shaft drive, so something can't be right.

Is the clutch installed and engaged? I don't think the kick start will work without the clutch engaged.

[motoman]

kboehringer, Thanks for jumpin' in there! Never have done it, but knew it could be done. Just wasn't to sure as to procedure. Years past, have went as far as second gear fix, dovetailing the 'dogs' and angle grinding the slots for a pefect match when engaged.

[AggiesaurusRex]

Moto man: I don't have any open holes luckily and I'm not sure what I would have to split cases for since I have 17, 4(Can't see it but I assume), and 16. Everything else should more or less slide on.

Kboehringer: Using your picture and part numbers I am only missing 13, 14, 15, and 4. I have everything else and I've quadruple checked behind number 12 to verify.
The shaft that's free spinning is number 17. I'm feeling like even if the rest of the 1-9 assembly is installed correctly it's not going to translate into anything once it goes to spin the other shaft, or am I mistaken?

BA80: The clutch is installed. Even if the clutch isn't engaged it should translate into some resistance, right? Just like if you've ever tried to kick a bike in 1st thinking it was in neutral, it lurches you forward. Right? I'll definitely try it though, I just want to understand the mechanics at work here.

[rangerguy302]

Same subject

Is this supposed to kick forward or backward? My 79 has everything but the kicker it's self and I'm toying with getting one.

[kboehringer]

Nothing but "Wind" without #13 & #14.

Kboehringer: Using your picture and part numbers I am only missing 13, 14, 15, and 4. I have everything else and I've quadruple checked behind number 12 to verify.
The shaft that's free spinning is number 17. I'm feeling like even if the rest of the 1-9 assembly is installed correctly it's not going to translate into anything once it goes to spin the other shaft, or am I mistaken?

AggiesaurusRex,
OK. Now I understand what you have/don't have.

YES, without #14 you basically have NOTHING and there will be no resistance. You will kick "Wind" as you are experiencing.

Although my photo above is a little dark.... Look CLOSELY at the back and inner diameter of #14. It engages #16 gear back's notches (which can not be seen in my book pic) when the shaft is turned with the kicker. The #14's internal diameter grooving drive it with the shaft #17. #16 sits in an area of the shaft #17 which is clear of grooves meaning they can BOTH spin continuously freely are they are not engaged with each other in any way.

When the bike is running, #16 is spinning continuously freely on the shaft and the shaft #17 is then stationary.


In this photo, taken from the oil pan area of an '80 WITHOUT all the necessary kicker parts. On the left you can see the grooves in the shaft and the notch that the clip is supposed to sit in. This photo was in my bucket for another purpose so ignore the red arrows but it helps clarify the situation without #13 & #14 everything is free. Your not even turning the shaft!

Also, you should have #15 & #4 but just can't see or didn't notice them. They are holding #16 into that clear area of the shaft.

Finding those missing parts may be troublesome. I hope you can find them for sale. Typically, the guys that are truly selling the complete set-up are not likely to pull those hard to find pieces out of the group. You may have to buy a '79 donor motor or the whole lot to get what is needed.

EMERGENCY USE ONLY.
On every one of these kicker threads someone very correctly chimes in with the following important information: #1) the kicker is an emergency use only item the side cover and case have not been bushed for continuous use. #2) if your battery is too dead the kicker ain't gonna get it started as the ignition needs a minimum voltage to fire. No one else had posted that so I figured it was my turn to do so.

Kurt's addition to the above important information:
#1) a kicker looks pretty darn cool and vintage #2) if your 35+ year old starter takes a crap you have a viable option to kickin' it old school! #3) an XS 750 or XS 850 kicker can be easily modified to work on the XS11 (see pic below). If you have STOCK exhaust it will work fine. If aftermarket exhaust is used you may have some clearance issues with an XS750/850 kicker. The emergency stored and fixed end kicker will clear many (probably all) of the aftermarket exhausts BUT you have to remove and store that one.



Sincerely,

[donebysunday]

If you would notice the angle of the 750 kicker where it swivels at the case, certain XS650 kickers are extended just a bit farther away from the case. This adds just a little more clearance, not enough to completely clear certain exhaust systems but a bit more than that 750/850 kicker.
I have one to show if you need to see ?

AggiesaurusRex,
OK. Now I understand what you have/don't have.

YES, without #14 you basically have NOTHING and there will be no resistance. You will kick "Wind" as you are experiencing.

Although my photo above is a little dark.... Look CLOSELY at the back and inner diameter of #14. It engages #16 gear back's notches (which can not be seen in my book pic) when the shaft is turned with the kicker. The #14's internal diameter grooving drive it with the shaft #17. #16 sits in an area of the shaft #17 which is clear of grooves meaning they can BOTH spin continuously freely are they are not engaged with each other in any way.

When the bike is running, #16 is spinning continuously freely on the shaft and the shaft #17 is then stationary.


In this photo, taken from the oil pan area of an '80 WITHOUT all the necessary kicker parts. On the left you can see the grooves in the shaft and the notch that the clip is supposed to sit in. This photo was in my bucket for another purpose so ignore the red arrows but it helps clarify the situation without #13 & #14 everything is free. Your not even turning the shaft!

Also, you should have #15 & #4 but just can't see or didn't notice them. They are holding #16 into that clear area of the shaft.

Finding those missing parts may be troublesome. I hope you can find them for sale. Typically, the guys that are truly selling the complete set-up are not likely to pull those hard to find pieces out of the group. You may have to buy a '79 donor motor or the whole lot to get what is needed.

EMERGENCY USE ONLY.
On every one of these kicker threads someone very correctly chimes in with the following important information: #1) the kicker is an emergency use only item the side cover and case have not been bushed for continuous use. #2) if your battery is too dead the kicker ain't gonna get it started as the ignition needs a minimum voltage to fire. No one else had posted that so I figured it was my turn to do so.

Kurt's addition to the above important information:
#1) a kicker looks pretty darn cool and vintage #2) if your 35+ year old starter takes a crap you have a viable option to kickin' it old school! #3) an XS 750 or XS 850 kicker can be easily modified to work on the XS11 (see pic below). If you have STOCK exhaust it will work fine. If aftermarket exhaust is used you may have some clearance issues with an XS750/850 kicker. The emergency stored and fixed end kicker will clear many (probably all) of the aftermarket exhausts BUT you have to remove and store that one.



Sincerely,

[madmax-im]

old skool kool...
https://ben-miller.smugmug.com/Gener...rary/i-wwmxQtv