Random Red Wire

[3Phase]

Ian, the Red wire is always connected to the battery through the 30A Main fuse but adding 10 Gauge wires makes everything work better.


The Red and Brown wire connectors are just power distribution points for $WHATEVER. I rechecked the schematic and a couple of wiring harnesses and the Red has a 30A limit from the Main fuse. The Brown shares that busy little 20A Sig fuse so you do need to watch what you add or the Sig fuse will keep popping.

Of course after you tie into one of the tie points you're supposed add the correct fuses to keep the smoke inside the wires and the toast inside the toasters.

[IanDMacDonald]

Sorry Scott. I was reaponding to Ron's post.

[3Phase]

Not a problem, Ian, the fuse is important and it really shouldn't get bypassed but phhttt! It's Nate's thread! We've all seen his work, he's got the main line sewed up tight.

The up-size on the battery cables is a great idea to go along with the larger main and ground wires. After looking around and trying to find good quality cables in the right length I gave up and bought one of those 8 ton crimpers from eBay for $30 to make my own cables:-


8 Ton Hydraulic Wire Terminal Crimper Battery Cable Lug Crimping Tool w/Dies


I will NOT! be stuck under a freeway bridge again because a wire/cable terminal crimp gave it up at 70Mph.

[TopCatGr58]

So I can see where the engineering provided power for future functions without having to run further wiring. If we just had a 65 amp alternator everything would have been engineered right.

Well, I DO have a 55 amp ALT on mine! As recently shown, it's not perfect, but has a built in R/R and uses just 1 wire charging/connection. However, with the new high output LED headlights and other lights, that takes a big load/strain off of the charging system, the OEM charging system is quite adequate.....Geezer's R/R is a nice upgrade though.

T.C.

[natemoen]

Yeah, I have been looking around trying to find what I want for replacing the main battery cables. I decided to use Ian's relay idea for the volt meter and triggering it off the extra switched brown wire for the brake switch.

After looking at the wiring diagram and seeing that the reg/rec is spliced into the main red wire going up to the ignition makes me want to replace that even more! Might even just run a totally separate wire for the reg/rec altogether.

[3Phase]

Watch out with those relays so you don't wind up hotwiring it and can't shut it off without disconnecting the relay. It's not even remotely amusing until afterward and DAMHIKIJKOK!

What you want to do, ideally, is get rid of the voltage potential difference between the Brown switched power wire after the ignition switch and the unswitched battery power Red wire before the ignition switch.

Think of an old balance scale with a very accurate stack of weights but a worn fulcrum that's offset to one side. The voltage regulator uses the Brown wire side of the scale for the reference voltage and will jack up the alternator output/pile more weights on the Red wire side until it's happy. If there is a voltage drop across the ignition switch -- the scale fulcrum is worn and offset -- then the regulator will raise the output voltage on the Red wire until it sees 14.5V on the Brown wire but it has no way of knowing that it's really putting 15.5V to the battery.

[ViperRon]

For my grounds I got #4 copper and a #6 stranded thin sheath and ran the # 6 to frame and #4 to motor. I have a high watt electric iron so I soldered connectors on. Ground can cause a lot of issues on the bike and the original flex weave cable on mine was dust in the center .002 ohms but for all intense purpose failed for anything else. I have a new start relay and connectors on wires have been replaced but main harness is still original and still in pretty good shape so I'm not rewiring it yet. The starter wire on mine is a replacement I got many years ago when I replaced brushes in motor was new out of package.
One thing with the digital meters they have 28 gauge wires for inputs anything crosses them and they are fuses however Nate is going for the look much different issues. My experience with a battery is overcharge is the main killer. Good to have the potential coming from Alt to handle load like TC but regulator has to handle charge rate or you boil the battery dry or turn the lithium brick to a bomb. Geezer's R/R is great improvement over original but your alternator has to be in good shape or it becomes a weak link under load.

However different people have different opinions and different bikes run different. By far the most important upgrade to make is replacement of connectors going to Alternator commonly fixes tach problems and will keep you from getting stranded on the road.
Thanks for suggestions Nate I'm just going a different direction and I like the little red and brown wires they put there for me.

[IanDMacDonald]

Running a better R/R on these is the best thing you can do for your bike! I run Tony's on mine, and altered the wiring so it runs straight to the battery with 10 ga. wire (fused).

With regard to the voltmeter, run a fused wire to your #30 on your relay, run your #87 to your voltmeter, run your #86 to your switched power, #85 to ground, and run your negative side of your voltmeter to ground as-well.

With regard to larger gage battery cables, I initially used a website to have them made, but then I decided it was cheaper to just do it at my shop.( http://www.genuinedealz.com/custom-c...cable-assembly)

[natemoen]

What you want to do, ideally, is get rid of the voltage potential difference between the Brown switched power wire after the ignition switch and the unswitched battery power Red wire before the ignition switch.

Think of an old balance scale with a very accurate stack of weights but a worn fulcrum that's offset to one side. The voltage regulator uses the Brown wire side of the scale for the reference voltage and will jack up the alternator output/pile more weights on the Red wire side until it's happy. If there is a voltage drop across the ignition switch -- the scale fulcrum is worn and offset -- then the regulator will raise the output voltage on the Red wire until it sees 14.5V on the Brown wire but it has no way of knowing that it's really putting 15.5V to the battery.

Explain that again for me?

[IanDMacDonald]

Minimizing the resistance will help with this, but not completely, as u'll always have reaistance. He's explaining the R/R sending out too much voltage due to the potential difference.

[3Phase]

Explain that again for me?

In your right hand is the Brown wire with the voltage regulator input.

In your left hand is the Red wire with the voltage rectifier output and the battery.

There is 14.5 lbs in your right hand.
There is 14.5 lbs in your left hand.

Stick your arms out from your side.

You're balanced, correct?

You're 'standing in' for the ignition switch and there is no voltage drop across the switch.


Now put your left foot on a 1 x 1 and stand up straight. You're still 'standing in' for the ignition switch but this time you're simulating a one volt drop across the switch.

You're not balanced any more because your right foot isn't touching the floor and you want to lean over 1 inch to right.

You still have 14.5 lbs in each hand but you'll have to add more weight (voltage) to your left hand with the Red wire and battery until you're balanced.

Now you have, for example, 15.5 lbs in your left hand but still only have 14.5 lbs in your right hand. Sure, your right foot is still one inch above the floor but you're balanced on one leg.

To carry it out to the electrical world of the charging system: the voltage regulator senses 14.5V so everything is just ducky in its world and it doesn't know or care about voltage drops, they're someone else's problem. As long as the voltage regulator can get 14.5V by adding power to the alternator everything is fine, even if the voltage rectifier is really putting out 15.5V to the Red wire and overcharging the battery.

You can avoid that by using a relay to bypass the ignition switch after the engine starts but that doesn't fix the original problem: the voltage drop at the ignition switch and wires that are almost too small for the normal electrical load.

[ViperRon]

Perfect explanation except "adding power to the alternator" should read " adding power from the alternator " and I understood exactly what you meant.

[natemoen]

Ok, I see what you are saying now. I do not have voltage drop across my switch. It has been cleaned, lubed, and new 12 awg wires soldered into it.

The relay I was talking about was front the random always hot red wire that started this thread going to my volt meter and having the relay triggered by the Brown brake light wire that already has a spare barrel plug on it.

[3Phase]

Perfect explanation except "adding power to the alternator" should read " adding power from the alternator " and I understood exactly what you meant.

The voltage regulator controls the current flowing through the field coil, it adds more power in Watts -- Volts x Amps -- to the field coil and a few nanoseconds later, the stator produces more power too.

[3Phase]

Ok, I see what you are saying now. I do not have voltage drop across my switch. It has been cleaned, lubed, and new 12 awg wires soldered into it.

The relay I was talking about was front the random always hot red wire that started this thread going to my volt meter and having the relay triggered by the Brown brake light wire that already has a spare barrel plug on it.

Perfect! Check the drop every now and then to make sure it stays clean and you're golden!


I put my five-dollar Harbor Freight voltmeter on the Brown wire and I was thinking about adding a relay and putting it on the Red wire.

I'm not trying to talk you out of using a relay but relays really annoy me. I glued a salvaged (free) momentary switch on Columbo's custom voltmeter and ran it down to that Red wire in the shell. Now I can see system voltage when the engine's running and I can check the battery voltage with or without the key, engine or no engine and no relay.


I don't have a picture of the switch but it's a rubberized one out of some ubiquitous seedy ROM drive. Here's the voltmeter as-installed so imagine the switch glued just below the chrome bezel and inside the all-weather insulating, UV resistant, sandwich baggie.



I eventually had to ditch the high tech sandwich baggie and put the meter inside a chopped and inverted PET water bottle. Yes, I know the speedometer needle is broken, that was the second or third needle in that speedometer.