Clutch Springs

[johnstewart]

In the past few weeks, my trusty XS1100SF has been slipping the clutch, and it's rapidly getting worse.

It's okay once the engine warms up, but until then I have to baby the throttle quite a bit.

I'm trying to figure out the install procedure now to replace the clutch springs, which seems like the thing to do (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...P-4143437.html).

But now I'm 5 pages deep in turning the bike upside down, dremeling out the 2nd gear issue, etc.

If all I want to do is replace the clutch springs, how hard is it?

I'm comfy with electrical, brakes, and the "easy" stuff. I've replaced an oil pump, but other than that I've never dug into the transmission or engine... and now I'm TERRIFIED!

[Radioguylogs]

Easy

If you are doing the Dremel fix, then you have the springs out already.

You just spend $20 for new springs and put them in.

If you do it in a separate operation, it's still quite easy. You don't even have to remove the high torque clutch basket nut. Just be careful to remove and replace the star plate by turning each screw 1/4 turn at a time so the star plate doesn't break from uneven spring loading.

If you need more info, just ask.

PS: Many folks recommend the stiffer Barnett springs, but I wonder if the condition of the friction plates and the metal plates is why. I am happy with stock springs in both my XS11's so far.

[JeffH]

TC has a really great Step-by-Step in the Repairs Section - Engine - Clutch Plate
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9481

Just follow that and you should be fine.


If you are just replacing the springs and leaving everything else alone its quite easy. This is my 78' E. The hardest part of the job on the 'E' was needing to remove that long bolt to remove the right side foot rest. On a Special you do not have that issue as far as I know. (but you need to go look)

So if you think all the clutch innards are within spec and you just want to replace the springs its straight forward job. The only issue i had was the bolts on star plate. Only two risks to the job IMHO - #1: making absolutely 100% sure that star plate is not crooked before you tighten the bolts. The 1/4 turn and excessive spring tension caution Mike just mentioned as i was typing up this response . #2: Torque spec on those star bolts is like a mere 7 ft lb. Be careful. I had one break off at about 5. Metal fatigue or just age, i don't know but it broke. (actually i recalled a more than a normal snap when I first loosen the bolts so maybe PO had way over-torqued it to begin with) I bought six new OEM star bolts because i sure didn't want to snap off any more.



Sure don't want to snap a bolt off in that clutch basket but reading the manual and following the simple precautions mentioned here should eliminate that possibility

Good Luck,
Jeff

[johnstewart]

Awesome, thanks gents.

I have no idea if the clutch plates are in spec or not, but figured the spring was the thing to start with.

It looks like if I just do springs, I don't need to do much.

What about gasket material? Looks like TopCat recommended making a new gasket. But that's the only other part I'd need (I may try to order one, if available), if I'm just doing springs?

[JeffH]

I think some guys just RTV everything -or- are energetic like TC and cut their own gasket.
but I'm lazy, and just ordered a new gasket

Check out Partzilla
www.partzilla.com

Says for 1980G (likely all the same anyways) and $12 bucks
Woops, but you said 'SF so that's 79 i looked up 80. Same #'s i think

Yes, only thing unless you want to get a couple spare star plate bolts just in case.
BOLT, FLANGE
95811-06025-00
$1.04


GASKET, CRCS COVER
2H7-15451-00-00
$11.83


Jeff

[johnstewart]

Thanks muchly; really really appreciate it!

She's a great bike. Maybe this winter my project will be cleaning the spare carbs I have on the shelf. Also a bunch of other things I should do (never ever checked valve clearances! Nor have I done any lube other than main oil, and final drive/middle drive oil). I'm sure there's stuff to grease that needs it!

Going to post some info on the ride I did this weekend; will start a separate thread...

[Radioguylogs]

...The hardest part of the job on the 'E' was needing to remove that long bolt to remove the right side foot rest. On a Special you do not have that issue as far as I know. (but you need to go look)

Jeff

I ended up removing that long engine bolt on both my Specials. I found it's far easier to remove it than to work around it. Can't get an Allen wrench on a couple of the cover bolts.

[BA80]

The clutch springs can be replaced in about 30 minutes on the sidestand. YamaBond or ThreeBond liquid gasket maker is all you need in place of a gasket. Just be sure when you put that 6 bolt star plate back on you tighten the bolts evenly or it will bind up in the center bore and break. And torque them with a torque wrench to the proper tension.

Also, when you remove those 6 bolts check them just under the head to see if they have been overtightened and stretched. You'll be able to tell. If they are REPLACE THEM!

The kick start rod can be a problem if it falls out. It's not hard to put back in if you know how so pay attention.

Here are the springs that you need, other aftermarket springs have proven to be inferior. http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/...14&Search.y=10

Here is the gasket maker you'll need. https://www.amazon.com/Three-Bond-Li.../dp/B0012TUVAW

Also, I hate to bring this up but what oil are you using? It really makes a difference with these old friction materials. Some additives will cause slippage.

[johnstewart]

Also, I hate to bring this up but what oil are you using? It really makes a difference with these old friction materials. Some additives will cause slippage.

You know, I'm not sure. I always just buy whatever 20W-50 I find at the auto-parts store that is NOT synthetic, but name brand. Probably Penzoil or something.

I would have suspected the oil, but this didn't start happening until well after my spring oil change a couple of months ago now.

Might be worth a shot. Could use a change anyway, I've been wringing it out pretty good this summer.

I think someone mentioned Wally World cheapo oil? What do you use?

[johnstewart]

Check out Partzilla
www.partzilla.com

Says for 1980G (likely all the same anyways) and $12 bucks
Woops, but you said 'SF so that's 79 i looked up 80. Same #'s i think

GASKET, CRCS COVER
2H7-15451-00-00
$11.83


Jeff

Well, I hope that part works. They don't have XS1100SF any more listed!!!

I think I recall someone mentioning this; some fallout with Yamaha de-listing bikes older than 1980? Weird they've still got the XS1100F listed. Just not the Special.

[BA80]

20-50 is correct but check the API service label. The bottom of the circle should be blank like this one.

[ViperRon]

If you take out the springs its not too much more to check the frictions and metal plates. They can build up varnish if left for a long time can build up rust and if someone had used synthetic the frictions may have a burnt finish that will slip. I am not saying any of these are a problem but once its apart check it all as looking will not take 30 minutes more and you do not want to go back later. Use TC's write up check it all and you will be better off for it.

[3Phase]

John,

Just a suggestion but when you put that long engine mount bolt back through the footrests, thread it through from the left-hand side of the frame so the bolt head is on the left-hand side and the nut is on the right-hand side.

The next time you have to take off the clutch cover you won't have to support the rear of the engine, you just slowly loosen the nut a few turns while you use a soft hammer or brass drift to tap the bolt and nut over a few inches to the left until it's just far enough to take off the nut and the footrest instead of pulling the entire bolt.

[TopCatGr58]

In the past few weeks, my trusty XS1100SF has been slipping the clutch, and it's rapidly getting worse.

It's okay once the engine warms up, but until then I have to baby the throttle quite a bit.

I'm trying to figure out the install procedure now to replace the clutch springs, which seems like the thing to do (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detai...P-4143437.html).

But now I'm 5 pages deep in turning the bike upside down, dremeling out the 2nd gear issue, etc.

If all I want to do is replace the clutch springs, how hard is it?

I'm comfy with electrical, brakes, and the "easy" stuff. I've replaced an oil pump, but other than that I've never dug into the transmission or engine... and now I'm TERRIFIED!

Hey John,

Your description sounds a little odd? I would expect the clutch to slip more once it's warmed up because the parts expand and causes the separation of the throwout rod and bearing of the star plate to get closer, and might not release completely which could cause slippage. BTW, have you done the throwout rod adjustment at the ENGINE under the round clutch cover??? If it's not adjusted right, it won't fully release the clutch and will cause slippage....and as the clutch gets worn, the pressure plate moves closer to the throwout rod, and that's why it needs periodic adjusting to keep it the right distance away to ensure proper full clutch release/engagement.

The colder thicker slipperier oil may contribute to slippage when cold, and when it warms up, the oil thins out and doesn't provide as much friction reduction and that's why it may not slip as much when warmed up!?!?

Also, the Extra Steel in the clutch MOD does provide a good guide for just doing the springs, just ignore the extra steel plate part. Ron, taking the clutch pack out is a lot more work, he'll need either an impact wrench with the 23mm socket, or will have to wedge the drivetrain to be able to get the nut loosened and then retorqued. Also, you can't use a regular 10-140 ft/lb torque wrench for the clutch bolts. Either get a low ft/lb range, like 00-75, or an Inch Pound, 7x12=86 inch pounds...the spec is 7.2 ft lbs. The tech tip also describes and shows what causes the star plate to get broken.

T.C.

[motoman]

I think some guys just RTV everything -or- are energetic like TC and cut their own gasket.
but I'm lazy, and just ordered a new gasket

Check out Partzilla
www.partzilla.com

Says for 1980G (likely all the same anyways) and $12 bucks
Woops, but you said 'SF so that's 79 i looked up 80. Same #'s i think

Yes, only thing unless you want to get a couple spare star plate bolts just in case.
BOLT, FLANGE
95811-06025-00
$1.04


GASKET, CRCS COVER
2H7-15451-00-00
$11.83


Jeff

........or could bolt clutch cover back on with NO gasket. I have a new gasket on shelf, but opted not using it. With both surfaces clean and dry, a thin,thin film of Permatex High Temp Grey worked fine. Not so much as a weep for some 9yrs. now. No gasket used on shift side cover nor oil pan either as all the metal cover plates and engine case mounting surfaces machined flat.