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Proper Timing chain alignment.

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  • #1

    Proper Timing chain alignment.

    I'm working on an 81 Special that belongs to my dad. Short story about what happened
    My dad likes to start and run his bike through the winter instead of winterizing it for the cold weather. This past spring he went out and started his 81 special with no problems. He let it run for approximately 20 minutes and shut it down. Fast forward 2 weeks. He goes out but the bike only cranks but doesn't start. I tell him he NEEDS 12 VOLTS in the battery. Just because it cranks doesn't mean the battery is strong enough to make it fire. He charged the battery and tried again to start but only this time he get a couple really loud backfires through the exhaust. Short story even shorter... NOW there is NO Compression in ANY cylinder. Zip, zilch, nothing.
    I cant see a valve in each cylinder getting bent. I can only assume that some how the timing chain has jumped a tooth or more. I need to know Where the Timing plate should be positioned when the cam dots are aligned with the arrows on the cap. Thanks
    Rob
    82 XJ1100
    Stock..With a few cosmetic changes.
    Current Project..Dad's 81 1100 Special



    http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/RiderXJ/
    Tags: None
  • #2
    The pointer should line up with the 'T' mark which is TDC
    2H7 (79) owned since '89
    3H3 owned since '06

    "If it ain't broke, modify it"

    ☮

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by bikerphil View Post
      The pointer should line up with the 'T' mark which is TDC
      In that case, Everything lines up perfect and I'm at a loss as to where to look next.
      Rob
      82 XJ1100
      Stock..With a few cosmetic changes.
      Current Project..Dad's 81 1100 Special



      http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/RiderXJ/

      Comment

      • #4
        It's odd to have no compression on all 4, I would suspect the gauge you are using is broken, can you test it with an air compressor or on another engine?
        2H7 (79) owned since '89
        3H3 owned since '06

        "If it ain't broke, modify it"

        ☮

        Comment

        • #5
          Oh, I'm willing to bet you bent all the valves. It's not unheard of that starting a bile with less than a stellar battery can lead to bent valves.
          1979 XS1100F
          2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

          Comment

          • #6
            The gauge works fine. I used it a few weeks before I used it on this motor. I just did a quick test with my own bike. It works. You can put your finger in the spark plug hole and feel nothing. No suction from intake stroke or compression. That is what has me so baffled. As soon as he turned it over the first time I stopped by, I knew it had no compression. I brought my gauge the next day and confirmed. Im going to see if I can borrow a cylinder leak down tester from a mechanic friend.
            I thought I read somewhere when aligning the cams and crank that the crank needed to be on the "C" mark with the cam dots aligned with the arrows. That's why I asked about proper alignment.
            Rob
            82 XJ1100
            Stock..With a few cosmetic changes.
            Current Project..Dad's 81 1100 Special



            http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/RiderXJ/

            Comment

            • #7
              Pull the valve cover. Also, when starting the bike, it'll sound different (no compression). Put your thumb over the spark plug hole, and see if u feel it.
              1979 XS1100F
              2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

              Comment

              • #8
                The 'C' mark is where the plate needs to be for adjusting the cam chain tensioner. I don't see how the valves could get bent if everything is still in time.
                Last edited by bikerphil; 08-25-2016, 07:07 PM.
                2H7 (79) owned since '89
                3H3 owned since '06

                "If it ain't broke, modify it"

                ☮

                Comment

                • #9
                  You have obviously got the valve cover off. Is the cam chain tight or is it very loose?
                  Greg

                  Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                  ― Albert Einstein

                  80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                  The list changes.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    cam chain had a small amount of slack I was told by my dad. I was able to get this bike on the road for him a couple years ago. I remember adjusting the cam chain tensioner when I first got it running. I don't think he could have put 500 miles on it since he has had it. I personally dont think it could have had enough slack to jump but it was easier to check the timing alignment first before digging into the motor. I could check for bent valves by checking valve clearances YES?? If the valves are bent it would have MORE than normal clearance
                    Rob
                    82 XJ1100
                    Stock..With a few cosmetic changes.
                    Current Project..Dad's 81 1100 Special



                    http://s727.photobucket.com/albums/ww272/RiderXJ/

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Certainly a place to start.
                      Greg

                      Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                      ― Albert Einstein

                      80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                      The list changes.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bikerphil View Post
                        The 'C' mark is where the plate needs to be for adjusting the cam chain tensioner. I don't see how the valves could get bent if everything is still in time.
                        Well, the timing plate is independent of the cams. The plate does not move. If the chain jumped a tooth, or a few, whether on the starter sprocket gear (my guess), or the intake cam, the timing plate won't let you know. What will let you know are the cam boss dots.

                        So, pull the cover, and check the cam boss dots. No need to check your valve lash. Odds are, if you bent any, it's all of the intake valves. You probs got lucky on the exhaust valves.

                        It takes 20 minutes to pull the head, and another 20 to pull the valves.
                        1979 XS1100F
                        2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IanDMacDonald View Post
                          Well, the timing plate is independent of the cams. The plate does not move.
                          Ahhhhhhh.....Ian, the timing plate is attached to the crankshaft, and the timing chain is run off the crankshaft.

                          Exactly how do you figure the timing plate is independent of the cams?
                          Greg

                          Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                          ― Albert Einstein

                          80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                          The list changes.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Because if the chain slips a few teeth, the pointer on the plate is still set to the CRANK, and the CAM will be off.
                            Ray Matteis
                            KE6NHG
                            XS1100 E '78 (winter project)
                            XS1100 SF Bob Jones worked on it!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DiverRay View Post
                              Because if the chain slips a few teeth, the pointer on the plate is still set to the CRANK, and the CAM will be off.
                              Post #3 pretty much covers that.
                              Greg

                              Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                              ― Albert Einstein

                              80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                              The list changes.

                              Comment

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