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oil leaking from head/cylinder interface right above tensioner

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  • oil leaking from head/cylinder interface right above tensioner

    I've been TRYING to get this beast back up and running for the last few weeks. I had to park it last summer due to my knees getting too bad. I wasn't PLANNING on parking it, so I didn't "winterize" it at all.

    Thankfully, two total knee replacements later, I'm able to ride again. But the bike, not so much!

    The first battle (and very much an expected one!) was the carbs. I tore them apart and ultrasonically cleaned up. When they went back together, I still had a leak that APPEARED to a stuck needle and seat. I was getting very tired of fighting (real) stuck needles and seats over the years, so I ordered four new viton tipped replacement. While I had it apart, I also broke down and installed four new slide diaphragms. Well worth the $20/each price tag!

    Of course, while bench testing the new parts and verifying the actual bowl fuel level, I found that the REAL leak was actually coming from the fuel Tees. That turned out to be a very easy fix: Very carefully cut off the rubber from the outside of the outermost "o-ring" and then polish up the aluminum under it (steel wool worked like a charm). Some 10mmx6mm o-rings fit bother the T and the carb bodys perfectly. When I take the carbs off, I'll try to find some washers that will fit over the aluminum part of the T but clear the carb body. That would make it a bit easier to install the Tees. But you CAN install them without them.

    And that DID fix all the leaks from my carbs (for now, a new one seems to pop up about every 6 months...) and the needle and seats were sealing perfectly and the fuel level was right where it needed to be on all four carbs.

    Before I could ride it, I also had to take the rear brake caliper and master cylinder apart and give those parts the full ultrasonic cleaning. I was surprised to find the plunger in the master cylinder looks to be a hard anodized aluminum. When it went in, it was BLACK and it wouldn't wipe off at all. After cleaning everything up and putting it all back together, the rear brake was working fine and did not appear to have any leaks. (PS: priming a completely dry master cylinder SUCKS! Put the system together and connect a hand vacuum pump to the bleeder nipple to pull the fluid through will save a GREAT deal of time)

    With all that done and the bike back together today, it was time for it's second test ride in three weeks. The bike ran MUCH better, but still not perfectly. There is a hesitation off the line up until around 3000 rpm. It seems to only do it while taking off, because I can accelerate away in 2nd/3rd/etc gear from 2000 rpm with no problems.

    Stranger: it pretty much is DONE at 7500 rpm. It pulls hard up to about 7000 rpm, then it starts tapering off quickly and is pretty much out of juice at 7500 rpm. I'm not sure if this is a carb issue, an ignition issue (I do have accel coils and 8.8mm wires and caps on it and I have rebuild the vacuum advance module a couple of years ago and it still moves very smoothly) or if the tach is simply way out of calibration. Any ideas on this problem would be appreciated.

    All these issues I can live with on the short term. But the final problem (that I know about!) is that it is leaking oil from between the head and cylinder block right above the cam tensioner. At first, I KNEW it was leaking at the self adjusting tensioner as I have fought battles in the past getting that to seal properly (the mating surfaces are not EXACTLY the same on the automatic ones vs the stock ones). But that thing was completely dry. The oil was DEFINITELY coming out between the block and head.

    I am assuming this is going to call for pulling the head and replacing the head gasket. Does anyone have any suggestions on what gasket to use? I sure don't want to do this twice!

    Any suggestions on tuning the carbs while I have them off for the oil leak would also be appreciated.

    There are times when I think I spend more hours working on this bike than I do riding it! The Yamaha FZ-09 and FZ-10 are looking VERY good right now...
    Last edited by clcorbin; 07-31-2016, 09:06 PM. Reason: missing words!
    -- Clint
    1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

  • #2
    There is no oil pressure to the head gasket. The only oil it seals is what is thrown around by the timing chain in the chain tunnel.

    Most likely you have a valve cover gasket leak or the oil transfer tube (between #2 & #3 carb boots) copper washer leaking and the oil is following the cooling fins around and it just LOOKS like the head gasket.

    Post a close up picture of what you are seeing.
    Greg

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

    ― Albert Einstein

    80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

    The list changes.

    Comment


    • #3
      That was my assumption at first as well. But the valve cover gasket is bone dry. The oil is definitely coming from the timing chain tunnel and coming out between the head and cylinder. I looked three different times because I couldn't believe it was leaking there either.

      I'll try to get a picture of it tomorrow. No way I'm going back down stairs this time of evening!
      -- Clint
      1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by clcorbin View Post
        That was my assumption at first as well. But the valve cover gasket is bone dry.
        I had a leak that looked like it was coming out of #2 exhaust port but it turned out to be the valve cover gasket back where you can't see well by the #2 plug and it was running out the water drain hole. RockinD had one that looked the same and it was the copper washer on the banjo bolt at the upper connection for the oil transfer tube. The oil was running around the jugs in the cooling fins and it looked like the tensioner was leaking. That one drove me nuts trying to figure out. (Short drive)

        All I'm saying is exhaust ALL other possibilities before tearing the head off.
        Greg

        Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

        ― Albert Einstein

        80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

        The list changes.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BA80 View Post
          All I'm saying is exhaust ALL other possibilities before tearing the head off.
          Boy, I can give a BIG AMEN TO THAT!
          -- Clint
          1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok. I had to go down stairs anyway, so I grabbed the Nikon and took some pictures. Here goes. And yes, it has been leaking SOME for a while. It's just upped it's game a LOT after sitting a year!





















            -- Clint
            1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

            Comment


            • #7
              The way it's heaviest right around the exhaust ports it really looks like it's coming out of the spark plug well drain ports. Reach into the #2 and #3 plug wells and feel around the bottom around the plug and see if your finger comes back with oil on it.
              Greg

              Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

              ― Albert Einstein

              80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

              The list changes.

              Comment


              • #8
                BA80,

                You are right on the money. #3 well was bone dry, but #2 had oil everywhere. I fired the bike up and let it idle and eventually I saw a few drops of oil fall off the #2 exhaust stud, but I STILL couldn't see any signs of WHERE the oil was coming from in the #2 well. I was able to get a good flashlight look at the oil feed lines and neither end had any oil on or around them.

                So at this point I am leaning towards a valve cover gasket (MUCH BETTER than a head gasket!). Any suggestions on a GOOD valve cover gasket?

                Oh, and one interesting point: I don't think it was leaking as fast tonight as it was yesterday. Probably less than 1/2 to 1/3 the rate.
                -- Clint
                1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

                Comment


                • #9
                  in no way

                  endorsing this seller.... but this is the cheapest I found on Ebay and mine is not leaking since beginning of riding season. http://www.ebay.com/itm/361636333132...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
                  2 - 80 LGs bought one new
                  81 LH
                  02 FXSTB Nighttrain
                  22 FLTRK Road Glide Limited
                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by cajun31 View Post
                    endorsing this seller.... but this is the cheapest I found on Ebay and mine is not leaking since beginning of riding season. http://www.ebay.com/itm/361636333132...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
                    +1. I've bought a lot of gaskets from that seller and I have been very pleased.
                    -Mike
                    _________
                    '79 XS1100SF 20k miles
                    '80 XS1100SG 44k miles
                    '81 XS1100H Venturer 35k miles
                    '79 XS750SF 17k miles
                    '85 Honda V65 Magna ~7k miles
                    '84 Honda V65 Magna 48k miles (parts bike)
                    '86 Yamaha VMAX 9k miles

                    Previous: '68 Motoguzzi 600cc + '79 XS750SF 22k miles +'84 Honda V65

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey Clint,

                      No aspersions on the gasket seller, but many folks have done away with the valve cover gasket completely, and have gone to using ThreeBond or Yamabond exclusively. Just need to make sure that the head and cover are truly bone dry/degreased before putting together. The sealant doesn't shrink with the heat, and makes an adhesive seal with both mating surfaces.

                      T.C.
                      T. C. Gresham
                      81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                      79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                      History shows again and again,
                      How nature points out the folly of men!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
                        Hey Clint,

                        No aspersions on the gasket seller, but many folks have done away with the valve cover gasket completely, and have gone to using ThreeBond or Yamabond exclusively. Just need to make sure that the head and cover are truly bone dry/degreased before putting together. The sealant doesn't shrink with the heat, and makes an adhesive seal with both mating surfaces.

                        T.C.
                        Side covers, oil pan and pretty much everywhere else I agree TC but I personally prefer a gasket there.

                        For the simple reason that this thread exists for one reason. Valve cover leaks can look like a lot of other things. Not only that but the VC is a PITA to remove/replace with 20 bolts, tank and seat removal, ect, ect.

                        It needs to be right the FIRST time. IMHO
                        Greg

                        Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                        ― Albert Einstein

                        80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                        The list changes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          VC gasket

                          I use copper coat on the gaskets that I've replaced. Works well.
                          1981 XS1100H Venturer
                          K&N Air Filter
                          ACCT
                          Custom Paint by Deitz
                          Geezer Rectifier/Regulator
                          Chacal Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines
                          Chrome Front Rotor & Caliper Covers
                          Stebel Nautilus Horn
                          EBC Front Rotors
                          Limie Accent Moves On In 2015

                          Mike

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MPittma100 View Post
                            I use copper coat on the gaskets that I've replaced. Works well.
                            Now that is bout' as ole' school as it gets!.
                            81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks guys. I've ordered a new gasket. Before I install it, I'm going pressure wash the hell out of that engine and try to get rid of any and all traces of oil on the outside, then idle the engine for 5 minutes or so. And MAYBE I can find the actual leak location.

                              I hate diving into these things blind. Heck, at this point I'm not sure if the oil leak in inside the #2 sparkplug well and the oil is flowing forward onto the engine (and then everywhere) or if it is leaking on the front of the engine and is being blown back and up into the #2 well.

                              If it is the valve cover gasket leaking, then it has to be the first case. If it is the head gasket, then it has to be the second case. Just a bit more information would be nice!
                              -- Clint
                              1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

                              Comment

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