I think these carbs are having an ignition problem ....

[bikerphil]

If you remove your main jet and you see a crossover hole in the side of the passage, you will need to use those rubber plugs over the pilot jet towers. The 80 carbs can come many ways, passage, no passage, plastic floats, brass floats. See post 17 in the following thread for a pic of the crossover passage...

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15555&page=2

[Barbarosa]

Hey Barbarosa,

Scott has got you well sorted. IMHO, I think you may be flogging a dead horse with regards to the ignition coils. They are 36 years old! They have gone thru thousands of heat up/cool down cycles. Granted, there aren't any MOVING parts in it, but heating up cycles still wears on the windings. The coils may just be worn out...and remember, they only generated ~15Kv at best NEW, and that's at the full Starting 12v's, so it's definitely gonna be weaker sucking ~9 volts thru the ballast resistor.

Folks have chased low rpm misses and stuff with these OEM coils, and finally after putting in either newer Honda VF1000 coils, or New Accel/Dynatek High Output(35KV) coils, bypassed the ballast resistor, and their low rpm miss/fouling went away!

Sounds like you've tested the heck out of your system, and Scott has confirmed that you really aren't missing that much voltage and the bike does run when you're not just idling it, but when you're trying to tune it at idle, the OEM tired coils just can't produce enough spark energy to keep the plugs firing properly, the ALT doesn't produce enough volts at idle to keep the battery charged.

I think it was Brant/Motoman that chased a low rpm miss problem thinking it was carbs, until he replaced his coils.

JAT! T.C.

Got the coils wired up and installed and the bike fired right off. After it warmed up I pulled plugs 1 & 2 to check for carbon. Not midnight black, but not burned clean either. Decided to go for a test drive so I put the tank and seat back on and went to the crossroads and back, a 10 mile ride. I ran the RPMs up smoothly between shifts, did not detect misfires and it pulled like it was running on all 4. Plugs showed still running rich, but nowhere near like before. It was getting dark and the head light had quit working again so I decided to wait till this morning to pull the carbs and put the breather box back on before taking it for a longer ride. Now it won’t start; no fire from plugs. It has 12v everywhere on TCI but no drop on orange and gray when cranking. That’s as far as I got and don’t plan on doing anything else anytime soon. Is anyone looking for a project or have a runner to trade for one lol? I am beginning to believe that this is just not meant to be and I am at the end of my will and capability. If it wasn’t so clean and pretty I wouldn’t have gotten it in the first place, plus I saw this bike on the road (100+ miles away) around 3 years ago when I had my G model and paid attention to them. Anyway, if you have been following this thread the bike is still not on the road and I think it may be time to pass this on to a more enthusiastic enthusiast. Or haul it to a guru that knows exactly what they’re doing and let them have a go at it. I’ve done all I know to do and a road trip sounds good right about now

[3Phase]

What type of new Dyna coils did you buy?

If they're 3 Ohm coils did you bypass or remove the ballast resistor? The ignition won't work right with 4.5 Ohms, there's not enough 'oomph' to start a decent fire.

If you bought coils for a CDI ignition instead of a traditional points and condenser or TCI ignition then they're the wrong coils. CDI coils are low-resistance and they'll kill the TCI deader than a doornail or burn up a set of points.

.

[Barbarosa]

DC1-1 Dyna 3 ohm coils with ballast wiring plugged into itself. The bike started and drove. I did not hammer on it, but did wind it past 5k between gears. Got back, shut it down and checked the plugs. They were not sooty black, but still indicated a rich/cold condition. I got into this thinking that fuel system maintenance would get it on the road and things have just gone from bad to worse. I have kept the same motorcycle going for over 40 years with countless updates, even put an electric starting system on it which is a big deal, but this bike must have it out for me lol. When I pushed the button this morning to see if it would start without the enricher and it wouldn’t hit a lick I was totally confounded …….. again. Running last night, no spark the next morning. I believe it is time to outsource the repair or sell/trade it. This bike wants to run; I just can’t give it the help it needs and don’t want to have it set up again. Any wheeler dealers or sliding scale mechanics out there?

[bikerphil]

You have the correct coils, don't quit now you are so close. Do your carbs have that crossover passage we we talking about?

[3Phase]

Even flying economy one way it's too far away for me, hopefully there's someone local or at least a little more local!

Maybe later when it's closer to the XSSE rally if I don't have my bike back together by then because after the last time I swore I'd never take the 40 again.

.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey, like the others have said, don't give up NOW!!!

I reread a few pages back, thought I had read that you have replaced the ER kill switch with NEW, along with other electrical/harness clean and updates, ie. fuseblock.

You wired in the New Dyna 3 ohm coils. The Primary connections are not required to be Polarity correct. But perhaps the connections made accidental contact with the frame or anther wire blowing the Ign. fuse?? Also, how good was the jumper/splice where the ballast resistor connector was done....come loose??

Also, feel free to post a HELP WANTED for member in Fayetteville, AR area to see who might be near and willing to come by, or that you could take it to.

T.C.

[DiverRay]

But perhaps the connections made accidental contact with the frame or anther wire blowing the Ign. fuse?? Also, how good was the jumper/splice where the ballast resistor connector was done.

I'll second this! I put 3 Ohm coils on a bike, and just plugged the resistor connector into itself. It managed to short against the inside of the tank way up in the mountains and left me stranded. I didn't find it until I towed the bike back home and started looking. I used heat shrink to keep it from doing that again.
DO try and ask if someone is close, as it's probably only two or three hours of fine tuning to get it ready!
Oh, and you do have some nice roads around there! Went through the back roads on my way to Fort Bragg in the mid 70's, on an XS1B 650.

[Barbarosa]

When I wrote about selling her off I was hoping she heard and took it seriously lol. And if I had known good parts to troubleshoot with there would have been a lot more time wrenching instead of typing. This bike does need to be back on the road though. Went back through the wiring checkpoints and all was good. 12v everywhere, 3 ohm on coils, 740 ohm on pick ups. Getting an analog meter to see if the voltage is switching next. Makes no sense for it to go from running to nothing after sitting overnight.

There are pretty good roads in NW Arkansas. Sort of a curse in some folks opinion though since the 3rd largest bike rally is held here now.

[Barbarosa]

Hey, like the others have said, don't give up NOW!!!

I reread a few pages back, thought I had read that you have replaced the ER kill switch with NEW, along with other electrical/harness clean and updates, ie. fuseblock.

You wired in the New Dyna 3 ohm coils. The Primary connections are not required to be Polarity correct. But perhaps the connections made accidental contact with the frame or anther wire blowing the Ign. fuse?? Also, how good was the jumper/splice where the ballast resistor connector was done....come loose??

Also, feel free to post a HELP WANTED for member in Fayetteville, AR area to see who might be near and willing to come by, or that you could take it to.

T.C.

It appears the entire electrical system had been gone though before I got the bike. I did not find a crumb of corrosion anywhere or any sloppy splices on the pickup coil update. IMO the only thing I actually corrected was getting the main switch to go into the fork lock position.
Didn’t want to spend time chasing down an analog meter so I made a test light from a turn signal. On the orange and gray at the TCI there is no flashing while the engine cranks. When I tested before installing the coils my digital meter jumped around with noticeable fluctuation from 11v to 4v to 0v. After the coils were installed the meter readings stayed fairly steady at 10v-11v. From that testing, and what I gather from the posts I have read, it looks like the TCI is acting up. Can’t see how new coils could cause the TCI to go out but I’m thinking the current isn’t switching now. ODTAA.

[Barbarosa]

If you remove your main jet and you see a crossover hole in the side of the passage, you will need to use those rubber plugs over the pilot jet towers. The 80 carbs can come many ways, passage, no passage, plastic floats, brass floats. See post 17 in the following thread for a pic of the crossover passage...

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15555&page=2

It was the tip over switch, go figure. Removed it and went for a 20+ mile ride. Ran well and accelerated smoothly through the gears and romped from 25 to 80 mph without any stumbling, but when I checked the plugs they were still sooty. Didn’t start dropping cylinders in a mile or so like before so the new coils must be firing better than the old ones. Anyway, the carbs are off again so I could pull a bowl to see if it needed a passage plug and confirmed it’s not drilled for one. I know carb cleaner will make it through all the passages. They have been soaked, sonic cleaned, and blown out with compressed air. All components are stock mikuni except the float valves and they hold the bowl level within spec when clear tube tested and do not show leaking when on the test stand. In my experience any blockage in fuel passages creates a lean condition and any leaks where excess air can get through will create a lean mix as well. Is there somewhere on these carbs that if not clean enough can cause a rich mixture instead of blocking off the fuel like it’s supposed to lol?

[bikerphil]

You did remove the emulsion tubes and cleaned them?

[Barbarosa]

You did remove the emulsion tubes and cleaned them?

Yep. Took apart #4 to look at it. Put the main jet on and slid the needle inside it to look at how it works. The needle controls a lot of the throttle range so I guess I was hoping for some major abnormality. Found none. Remembered there was a washer but it wasn't under the clip so the needle should be in the stock position. Running with no airbox, 2 to 4custom exhaust, and the mix screws at 1/2 turn it seems it should be way lean. Now I'm wondering if anyone has gone down from stock mains or tried a notched needle to lean out an '80 model carb?

[TopCatGr58]

Jets are mikuni and are stock size.

Reviewed this thread and found this statement, but just want to confirm what sizes are your stock sizes?? Mains..110/115/120??? Pilots, 42.5 or 45.0 ??

Now that your carbs do NOT have an electrical problem, if you do have the 42.5 pilots with the screw only 1/2 turn out and sooty plugs...then you might now want to tweak the float level from the 23mm you stated to around 24mm, or 1mm lower fuel level via your clear tube check.

BTW, when you're checking your plugs are you just riding it on the highway and then back into town, to home and then park and pull? OR are you doing the Throttle Chop method with engine under LOAD for 45 seconds/ and then killing engine, coasting to a stop, pulling plugs?? Throttle chop will show MAIN jet performance, while just going home check will be mostly checking pilot jets.

And you really should put some filter of some sort on there to protect it from dust/debris that can score your pistons.

T.C.

[TopCatGr58]

Oh, just remembered!

Just remembered someone posting about the Orings on the ends of the Choke Plungers not sealing properly, and that could allow excess fuel getting sucked in via the enrichener circuit?? JAT!

T.C.