Taken to the shop...?

[sethhope]

So I've done all im comfortable doing to my bike to try to fix the misfire/backfire issue. Ive scheduled it at a local shop (a yamaha specialist shop where ive been ordering my parts). My question lies in, is there something i should look for or do before sending it in, after getting it back, and anywhere in between? Like, what should I worry about with a full diagnosis from a shop?

[motoman]

So I've done all im comfortable doing to my bike to try to fix the misfire/backfire issue. Ive scheduled it at a local shop (a yamaha specialist shop where ive been ordering my parts). My question lies in, is there something i should look for or do before sending it in, after getting it back, and anywhere in between? Like, what should I worry about with a full diagnosis from a shop?

........everthing........expext to see ya' back here soon.

[mack]

Big Mistake

Just ask BlankSlate what happens when you take it to a shop. He got charged several hundred dollars for labour and they did nothing for him! These bikes are older than the guys working in the shop and they don't have the FSM for reference.

[mack]

Issues?

Seth I haven’t seen a thread or followed your predicament. So I’ll ask a few questions.
1. What year bike and are the carbs original to the bike?
2. What are the symptoms your not happy with,
3. What exactly have you done in attempts to remedy the issues , and
4. What reference material do you have, Clymers, Haynes or factory service manual.
I’d just state right now that no one, and emphasis on NO ONE knows your bike better than the people here. Your just going to blow a lot of cash and still have problems if you take it to a shop! Let us, help you, help yourself. We’ll talk you through it.

[ViperRon]

Some times shops have guys that know about these bikes but not often. The real problem is shops have to operate a certain way and they do not order off Ebay they buy from Yamaha or other dealers. You may pay an extreme price for some parts and labor will be very high. The biggest issue is if they do not have the talent you will pay for all the above and like some have said still have a broken bike.

The technical ability here on site is to where over time if you listen clear and completely and downloaded the free manual it could have been fixed cheaper and you would have been trained.

[Tarheeltriple]

Half the fun of owning a 35 year old bike is working on it

[dbbrian]

Went looking for fuel tube last week, the Yamaha dealer didn't have any in stock - hard to believe they can service bikes and not have some fuel hose handy...

So after getting along with the parts lady she picked up the phone and asked what seemed like a friend of hers if he had any for a guy who wants to get riding soon, and sent me to this place

http://www.wolfeworx.com/about/

This place is all business, no fancy showroom or front of house staff, there a counter that might fit two customers, parts hangin on the walls, old Motorcross bikes up above your head on a shelf, and the owners GS1000 takes up half the 'lobby'.

This forum is my first stop for my new-to-me XS - the guys on here ARE the experts in my opinion. But if I'm in over my head, don't have the tools or shop set up, I might be inclined to go to a place like the one linked above. But not a dealership. I don't take my cars to them either, having learned better over the years, the hard way, that they just take your money and throw some parts on your vehicle in hopes it solves the symptoms.

[sethhope]

Thanks for all the words of wisdom. To answer a few of the questions the bike is a 1979 Yamaha Xs 1100 F standard that seems to be idling rough and popping from cylinder 3 and 4. The carbs on the original but I took them apart cleaned them and put new float bowl seals in. I also thoroughly cleaned and checked the Jets and they all seem to be in order. After that I replace the boots between the carburetor and the engine. I'm not really 100 percent sure how to do a lot of the work with the valves and I'm not sure if that would even be my problem or whether my problems in the timing or my problems in the carburetors. To clarify a little bit more also I'm only taking it to the shop for a diagnosis I'm not going to have to do any of the actual work on the bike. I'm going to be doing the repairs. I just really don't know what's wrong and I don't know where else to go.

[mack]

Ok

so if you haven't had the pick up coils off yet the timing is probably ok but the coils may be bad. The check for that is easy if you have an ohm meter. The TCI is a black box under the seat on the rear fender. It has two connecters going into it. Remove the four wire connector and put your ohm meter on the white/green and white/red connectors, then repeat for the yellow /green and yellow/red connectors. The magic number on both is 720 plus or minus 20%. Have someone(wife) push on the vacuum advance and see if the number cuts out or is maintained. If maintained then all is good with the pick-up coils. Now the issue turns too the carbs. Did you follow the carb cleaning 101 thread the scrutiny will be on the pilot circuit in the carbs. It's really the master cct and has to be spotless to function properly. Did you strip out the emulsion tubes and check that the cross over is clean on each carb, are the tubes themselves clean. Did you check the diaphrams for pin holes and tears. Did the enrichment plungers get removed and the inlet cleaned. This is were the pilot cct enters the top of the carb and makes it's way to the holes in the top of the barrel. Looking clean and being clean are two very different things with these carbs.
Next I assume you bench synced the carbs upon assembly but did you vacuum sync them after installation? Last but not least, how many turns out from lightly seated are your idle mixtures screws set at. To start for a 79 they should be around 1.5 turns to be able to do a sync. Factory was 1.25 turns but the carbs are much older and the holes may have been tampered with with broken screws etc. So 1.5 is a good starting point. Then you watch your plugs and tune each cylinders to it's own plug. Make sure the plugs are properly gapped and start with new plugs. I should also mention that the floats were brass for those carbs so did you check them for leaks before installing and setting the levels.

[Eastcoaster]

Diagnosis?

Seth,
As all the guys have mentioned I can't imagine a shop on the east coast that would understand these bikes?

There is no diagnostic meter you can hook up and tell your problems.

Without through investigation and understanding of these machines and countless hours like the hundreds of thousands of hours the guys have on this site. I think you are wasting your time money and will probably get bad advise?

I will throw this out again you are probably 15 minutes from me. I reside in NJ but I still have a residence and work in Montgomeryville I have 6 bikes there now and numerous parts. I am guessing your problems is carbs and wondering if you synched them and or did a complete cleaning.

Is your bike on the road? Is it able to get to Montgomeryville If you want some help let me know I think we could set a time to meet if you want

[sethhope]

Seth,
As all the guys have mentioned I can't imagine a shop on the east coast that would understand these bikes?

There is no diagnostic meter you can hook up and tell your problems.

Without through investigation and understanding of these machines and countless hours like the hundreds of thousands of hours the guys have on this site. I think you are wasting your time money and will probably get bad advise?

I will throw this out again you are probably 15 minutes from me. I reside in NJ but I still have a residence and work in Montgomeryville I have 6 bikes there now and numerous parts. I am guessing your problems is carbs and wondering if you synched them and or did a complete cleaning.

Is your bike on the road? Is it able to get to Montgomeryville If you want some help let me know I think we could set a time to meet if you want

My bike isn't really safe to drive right now, but i have a pickup truck and a ramp... im currently free almost any day next week or everyday after 5... i really appreciate it, Eastcoaster.

As for carb cleaning, i THINK i did it right... i didnt really sync it too well,but would that really throw it off that much...?

[Bonz]

Seth, GO VISIT Eastcoaster!

If it isn't a rideable bike and can't haul it with your own vehicle, renting a trailer for a day and borrowing a buddy's truck to haul down there is less than what the dealer is gonna charge you! The work will be done right, and YOU will know so much more about your bike for future work.

Dealers are good for changing my tires, bring them the wheel off the bike and the tire I got from whoever was the least expensive on-line. Gives them some easy $$ and let's me keep in touch with the guys at the dealer in case I really need something down the line.

[ViperRon]

I agree with taking it to Eastcoaster when he is free. Take some extra cash let him look at it throw him some cash or buy a good meal and you will be much better off. I guarantee he will see things the shops can not find. In having this bike nothing will ever be so important as the relationships you build with the guys here.

[kboehringer]

We don't work on any street bikes with carbs?

Seth, GO VISIT Eastcoaster!
SNIP....
Dealers are good for changing my tires.

Seth,
I think the offer of assistance from EastCoaster is definitely a path to follow.

When I first re-started working on my bikes I couldn't decide if I wanted to invest in all the tools necessary to do a carb sync and etc. I asked one local YAMAHA dealer if they could sync the carbs their response was that "they didn't work on any street bikes with carbs". Another told me their mechanics "were not trained on bikes that old" and I would need to find some old guy to work on it.

I have to disagree with Bonz on the tires. Two of the three local dealers could not properly mount or balance my tires. One dealer mounted the tire backward even though I have used a marker to indicate direction of travel. The XS11 is so old "they had not seen a rim that old" was what I was told. But they didn't understand the big arrows either???????

One advantage I found of the Yamaha dealer's counter reps being so unaware of our old bikes the Yamaha dealer close to me sells me OEM valve shims out of his stocks for $2ea. If only he knew what they are worth! I do buy some oil and small stuff from him to maintain that relationship.

KURT

[Eastcoaster]

A few questions

How many miles on the bike?
Stock exhaust or something else?
Have you checked the valve clearances?
Cam chain adjustment?
Timing?
Stretch check pick up wires?
Vac leaks caps on sync ports?
Are you running PODs or factory air box?
Did you look at all jets to check for the correct # installed?
Did you make sure all the jets in the bottom of the bowls are clear?
Did you pull the emulsion tubes under the main jet? (not sure if this year 2 and 3 were different make sure in the right position)
Did you remove the air fuel valves and clean ports?
float set to proper height?
sounds like not sync with gauges?
Gas vent cap clear?

This would be helpful before I look at it.