Clutch - unable to re- adjust

[dbbrian]

I had a working clutch, and thought I should adjust it, now it doesn't work.

I clearly did not understand the service manual instructions initially. Thanks to extra clear explanations from T.C. I now get it. What has me worried is I may have backed out the screw pin too far, and possibly one or three balls have dropped out. Why, o why doesn't the manual say to NOT do that?

I made the adjustment many times over and every time the rear wheel remained locked in gear with the lever pulled. I tried turning in the screw pin in bit by bit and checking, until the rear wheel was movable, but only with lots of resistance, and the perplexing part - it didn't make any difference with clutch lever pulled or not.

The clutch push lever moves the pin in and out with the hand lever action as seen in pics below, and viewing the clutch plates in the oil cap hole I can see them moving inwards.

Any hope or am I into pulling it apart?

[IMG][/IMG]

[mack]

Throw out bearing

This may help. A picture is worth a thousand words thing. You don't need to drain the oil. Just put the bike on the side stand and remove the clutch cover. While it's off have a look at your spider /star plate and ensure no springs are broken and jamming anything, then inspect the throw-out bearing mechanism.
https://youtu.be/_0L5_6NXkJcn

[mack]

Picture

is a little blurry but it looks to me that the adjustment screw is turning freely as the lever mechanism is rotating with the clutch lever. This shouldn't be the case. It needs to rotate with the lever to throw the balls out of the grooves to expand and push on the star plate.. Are you sure it's sitting properly into the flat shoulders.

[dbbrian]

Thanks Mack the video is excellent.

The adjustment screw is not 'loose', it rotates with the lever and the lever is on the shoulders. If you look closely a the two pictures you can see the lever is further set inwards on the 2nd photo, and when I look into the crankcase through the oil fill cap hole I can see the clutch plates moving inward as I operate the clutch.

I can't seem to find the adjustment that allows the rear wheel to be turned by hand with the clutch lever pulled. Even when turning in the adjustment screw, past the recommended setting.

There is no difference between clutch lever pulled or not. Extra adjustments of the screw inwards will eventually make it so I can force the rear wheel to turn, but there is great resistance, and no difference with the lever pulled or not.

[mack]

Ok

this happens a lot, sometimes the friction plates and steels will fuse together if the bike has sat for a long time. Put it in neutral and start the motor and hold the clutch lever in. Make sure you have a box fan blowing on the motor this could take a few minutes. As you hold the clutch lever in oil will slowly work it's way into the clutch basket and it should eventually free up the plates. The second option we use mostly is to get the bike out side, pointed down the driveway or street. Start it in neutral and push it till you can jump on and roll a ways, kick it down into first and it won't stall. Build up a bit of speed then pull in the clutch and slam on the rear brake. That will release the plates. Slip clutch for a bit and the oil will work it's way throughout the basket, then your good to go. I usually have to do this every spring.

[dbbrian]

Thanks Mack - this makes a lot of sense, along with some other info I read about getting between the plates lubricated.

I will re-do the adjustment 'by-the-book' beforehand.

[dbbrian]

Back in business

Update - I performed a modified version of what Mack said to do. After adjusting the clutch (the right way) I just stood on the pegs with the bike on centre stand, pulled in the lever and with a bit of blipping throttle kicked her into gear, clutch lever pulled. An expected klunk, and then with some throttle put on the rear brake and let out the clutch.

She resisted a bit, but it got better with repeated clutch action, and subsequent clutch and gear engagement works smoother, with foot on brake.

However the wheel still doesn't turn by hand (engine off / in gear / clutch pulled). So I'm wondering - how many XS'ers out there would find the same thing - if they tried, engine off, putting the bike in gear, pulling the clutch lever and seeing if they can hand turn the rear wheel by hand?

I suspect I'm not the only one that can't. We'll see how the clutch reacts with some riding and time.

So now I can at least get to my safety inspection tomorrow. Only 2 blocks away, but coming home is uphill so it will be much easier if I can drive and shift her .

I can't help but think this is oil related (uh - oh) where is the chatter on this forum about ZDDP in our oils we use? Don't these clutches need it?

[mack]

Lol

pull the plugs out first, it will still be hard to rotate the motor and tranny together and pulling in the clutch at the same time. But without the plugs removed you won't do it unless your Charles atlas!

[dbbrian]

pull the plugs out first, it will still be hard to rotate the motor and tranny together and pulling in the clutch at the same time. But without the plugs removed you won't do it unless your Charles atlas!

Right, while in gear, but with the clutch lever pulled it shouldn't be in gear and need the plugs pulled.

On the left side of bike, left hand on clutch lever, right hand on top of rear tire - but I've been told I have long arms

My question is if others have similar resistance to turn the wheel in that case

[mack]

resistance

mine doesn't. Does the wheel turn freely when in neutral?

[dbbrian]

mine doesn't. Does the wheel turn freely when in neutral?

yes..................

[Radioguylogs]

Yes, clutch takes some force to slip.

Brian:

For your peace of mind....

My bikes take a surprising amount of force to slip the clutch plates from the rear wheel, especially if they have sat for awhile.

However, it is still "do-able" by hand.

[Bonz]

Can you take the bike for a ride? Like Mack said? Maybe I missed something? If the rear wheel spins pretty easy while in neutral, get the engine started and point the bike down the street and pop it in gear once rolling, go for a ride to get some real heat in the clutch and work it out that way.

Thoughts?

[dbbrian]

Yeh, its a bit of a mystery to me.

Yes, I am driving it now after performing a modified version of Mack's suggestion (See post #7).

Now that I have my licence plate I can get some more miles on it and see if the clutch plates loosen up with use and the new oil change.

Thanks for you help, I really appreciate you guys making comments.

Brian

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Brian,

I didn't go back and re-read the thread, you just said you were going to do another oil change, so I would suggest putting in the MMO(Marvel Mystery Oil) in the oil and run it for a little while, day or so, and then drain it. The MMO is a very good cleaner, will remove a lot of the varnish and gum that may be built up on the plates, as well as other locations in the engine! It can also help in unsticking piston rings.

T.C.