Waterproofing Connectors - Biker Friends....

[kboehringer]

XS Friends,
I took a nice ride last weekend to North Carolina (as mentioned in the Dead Duck thread). I had some issues on the way home. Unlike the experienced riders my bike sat outside in the heavy rain and wind all night without the benefit of a cover. The smart/experienced guys carry one! (i.e. Marty++)

About 50 miles out of Hendersonville, NC my XS11 bike lost at least one (perhaps two) cylinders. I was driving with Marty and a couple guys we met at our hotel one on a vintage Triumph and the other on a vintage BMW.

All of us stopped several times (3+) with about 3 or 4 miles in between to try and figure out the issue. Full throttle gave me 4k rpm and EXTREMELY poor power. At first we thought it was a faulty pick-up wire. I'm EXTREMELY grateful the guys all stopped with me and helped with ideas & tools. Pretty darn cool of them having known me only one day.!!!

On the final stop I encouraged the others to carry on as it appeared I was about to call for the wife & trailer. They reluctantly agreed and wished us luck. Marty and I started pulling stuff apart and pulling plugs looking for the issue. We thoroughly inspected all four wires to the pick-ups and found no soft spots and no visible damage.

We shook all the connectors, pulled and checked the plugs (one was crappy), and gave it a shot one last time.... We never found ANYTHING wrong? No smoking gun...... It Ran Great!

It would seem that my best idea for root-cause analysis is that water had gotten into something and fouled up the works.
I believe there are only FOUR(4) connectors that could have been effected by the water and caused this:

• Ignition Pick-up to Harness (Right Cover Area)
• Ignition Control Box (2) (Left Cover Area)
• Ignition Coil Connectors (2) ('81 2-wire Plugs)

The plug caps are brand new with nice new soft rubber boots on the plug end and at the wire entry. Marty checked a couple and said they looked good.

I will entertain all ideas on how to protect these connectors from future water intrusion.??? So far, I have used some rubber tape on the BACK of the connectors where the wires enter them. This does not effect getting the connectors together or into each other but SHOULD keep water out of the BACKS of them. Water COULD still get in there but it would be a little harder to do.

This is a MODIFIED XS11 and does not have the OEM side covers, fender, etc. so it MAY BE more susceptible to water issues although I think these are protected as well as OEM...

Thoughts? Similar issues?

KURT

P.S. The nice guy on the Vintage BMW broke down 40 miles from his home due to a bad push rod..... Go figure?

[BA80]

Kurt, I had the same issue for YEARS until I figured it out. The plug for the pickup coils behind the fuse panel would get water in it and confuse the signals to the TCI.

I pulled the plug apart and filled it with dielectric grease and put it back together. Haven't had an issue in the rain or the carwash since.

[MaximPhil]

Hi Kurt,
It was probably only running on 2 cylinders.
I lost two one rainy night. It sure burned through a lot of gas running on only 2 cylinders. Mine turned out to be a hairline crack in the OEM Coil.
I am no longer a fan of dialectic grease. I do have a small amount of clear silicone on the plug boot to wire connections and the plug wire to coil connection.
With no front fender you may be sending water up into the coil area.
Or it could be something else
Maybe you need to clean the carbs again and change brands of oil
Phil

[kboehringer]

Protect the coils.....

...... Mine turned out to be a hairline crack in the OEM Coil.......With no front fender you may be sending water up into the coil area. Phil

Thanks Greg & Phil,

Yes, the front fender on this bike is merely "decorative" at the request of my son. I will make a THOROUGH inspection of the coils and determine if it is possible to protect them better.... I do have the plastic frame/tank piece but it's not doing much for water shot up from below....

I don't care for ever driving in the rain on purpose but those unforeseen showers do pop up.

KURT

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Kurt,

Last year when GLoweVa(George) and I and Rich ran down to XS SouthEast we ran into almost constant rain on Friday. When it was just light rain, George's bike ran okay, but once it got heavy/constant, his dropped 2 cylinders. We would pull over under a tree or other rain shielded area and let the engine dry out a few minutes, and then it would run on all 4 again, and we would go another 10-15 minutes until it would drop cylinders again.

We finally pulled over and pulled the tank off, got the meters out and ohmed the PU coils, the TCI, even had a spare TCI we swapped in to test. He was running old OEM coils, and we finally figured out that his old spark plug wires were cracked and shorting out to the engine/ground when really wet. I also had plenty of electrical tape, and after he wrapped ALL of the plug wires, we were finally able to make it the rest of the way to the Iron Horse.

I have after market Dyna Coils, the connectors are screw/eyelet style IIRC vs., clip on style, but they are OPEN, no grease/silicone on them. Same for my TCI, Pu Coil, and ignition connectors. IT's been that way ever since I rebuilt it in 1999-2000. Reading the First Ride thread brought back my memories of my first RALLY LDR. I rode from here in Portsmouth all the way to Alexandria Bay, NY with BRENT HOOVESTAL. On the return trip, we hit a gully washer of a thunderstorm, and I had no rain suit. We stopped at a little private gas/n/stop place, got several large trash bags from the owner, and MADE my own RAIN suit with those bags and DUCT TAPE! Brent still brags about how my trash bag suit held up better than his authentic Harley Rain suit.....his pant legs shredded!! Then the next year, to Pennsylvania, again had to ride to the rally in constant rain for hours....had a rain suite/rubber boots then. Bike ran like a top wet or dry.

Rain water has lots of chemicals, impurities in it that can allow it to form channels down the spark plugs from the connector to the base of the plug allowing a short to ground. So...Dielectric grease on the INSIDE of the BOOT of the plug cap is one of the places where it's really supposed to be used, both to make it easier to remove the boot later for plug changes, as well as insulating the cap/plug so that it can't form that residue channel short.

As Greg has stated, insulating the PU coils connections would be good, but you don't necessarily have to have the grease on the metal contacts. Putting some where the harness wires go into the plug/back side, as well as around the outer edge of the plastic plug where it will keep the water out without necessarily interfering with the actual metal connector pieces themselves. And some grease or silicone around the hi tension coil primary connections would also help prevent loosing power to the coils. Also, grease around the harness to TCI connectors, again NOT getting it on the actual metal connection parts, just around the outside/inside of the connector and TCI plug interface surfaces.

Make sure you have good new plug wires, and some silicone around the wire to coil interface and wire to cap wouldn't hurt either like MaximPhil.

T.C.

[motoman]

All good input, and especially follow what T.C. stated to round it all out.

[IanDMacDonald]

If you're just looking to tinker, replace all of your Molex connectors with Weather-pack connectors.

[MaximPhil]

If you're just looking to tinker, replace all of your Molex connectors with Weather-pack connectors.

Hi Ian, do you have a link for a source for Weather-pack connectors.
Do they take heat any better than Molex? as i am tired of replacing melted Molex and searching for lost voltage
Phil

[IanDMacDonald]

Hey Phil- You can find complete kits on ebay or Amazon. But . . .

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is...ack+connectors

http://m.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=we...qp=weatherpack

All types of sites like Digi-Key, Mouser, etc.

[BA80]

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0941&ppt=C0139

[jetmechmarty]

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0941&ppt=C0139

Phil's bike was already done in by that grease. Electrical connectors are no place for it, in my not so humble opinion.

[BA80]

I've had it in that connector since my first trip to XS Southeast. Rode a couple hundred miles on 2 cylinders on the way home because of heavy rain. I fixed it when I got home. That was miserable.

If there were problems with connectors it was used on it they weren't caused by the dielectric doing what it's supposed to. I've been using it in automotive applications for decades. That's exactly what it's designed for.

If the connectors aren't connecting, there's something wrong with the connector itself. It isn't designed to be used in switches so don't use it there.

[jetmechmarty]

Greg,

I hear your argument. I've seen what the people who make that stuff say it is for. It's not going near my connectors. Period. On this, we just have to agree to disagree. I still respect you.

[BA80]

Agreed.

You have a lot of cleaning to do on the connectors on your car then too. It's on there from the factory.

[Gmac]

Connectors and Pin counts

Does anyone have a count on the number of connectors used in the harness and the pin counts in each connector? I suspect that before I'm done working over my bikes they will be so over engineered that if something fails I'll be shocked.

Just out of curiosity, if these Weather Pack connectors are as waterproof as they appear to be from the assembly instructions I've looked at why is dielectric grease needed? The wires have crimps on the plugs and the shells have gaskets that make the overall assembly appear to be impervious to anything once they are assembled.

I can see doing this to every connector to prevent having any interesting campfire horror stories to relate. I already have a ceramic connector for the headlamp to prevent a meltdown there.