Synthetic oil in XS11.

[BA80]

I think you'll find the difference with the clutch issues is that the more modern friction materials are more forgiving with the synthetics. Those that are using synthetic without issues are probably those that have replaced the friction plates in the clutch.

The older ones HATE it.

[XJOK2PLAY]

Me too! I change mine every 3k miles.. or 5.. or 8, or whenever. But at least I splurge and use the cheap stuff! (Regular 20/50 dino oil.. I have a personal favorite but won't get into that) I change the filter every other time.. most of the time.. I think. I change the drive gear oil every year.. or other year.. or when I forget to put the fill plug back on and spew the contents all over me, the bike, and the highway, or when the middle drive plug falls out the bottom going down the highway. That reminds me....that was a couple years ago. I need to change it.. Maybe.

Meh... I think I'll go on another ride first. Cya.

Use a similar mileage interval when greasing the FD hub spline too?

(Sorry, bro... couldn't help myself! Lol!)

[motoman]

Thanks for all the info guys! I've been debating on Synth or Dino after I finish rebuilding my motor. Cost isn't an issue (within reason) since I get a great price on oil and intend on spoiling this bike rotten.

Spoil it with CONVEVTIONAL 20-50w as I've done since 1981 with my Venturer.......Syn. motor oil WILL create a number of issues.

[Bonz]

Disagree on that one. Syn motor oil will not create "a number of issues". Decades and decades ago, before the additive packages were worked out, they swelled seals and caused leaks. That issue has been long gone for just about as many decades and decades.

Syn oil in the middle and final drive units doesn't cause leaks. IF the sym oil is the problem, then it would cause leaks. Syn and Dino oils use the same additives. What syn oil does is resist breakdown at higher temps because it is comprised of more consistent molecules that are more stable in the base oil. That does not cause any issue.

Both MD and FD have gaskets and seals made from the same material as the engine, and it is preached long and hard to run syn in those units.

Syn oil is the same bloomin' stuff pumped from the ground that is in conventional oil, just refined (synthesized, ergo refined) to a higher grade. If a manufacturer puts the same additive package in either Dino or "syn" you get no more or less problems. It is the additives that make any problems occur, and if problems occur, it is not the base oil causing the issue.

Info is all over the Internet.

[BA80]

It won't cause issues in the middle or final drives but it can be detrimental in the crank case. It won't cause engine wear problems but it can cause clutch and starter clutch issues.

That's not a guess, it's a fact formed by experience.

Just throwing it out there for what it's worth. I know it to be a fact and I won't argue about it.

[Bonz]

How many years ago was the issue, BA?

[motoman]

It won't cause issues in the middle or final drives but it can be detrimental in the crank case. It won't cause engine wear problems but it can cause clutch and starter clutch issues.

That's not a guess, it's a fact formed by experience.

Just throwing it out there for what it's worth. I know it to be a fact and I won't argue about it.

A big +1!.......as far as middle and final drive, 75-140w syn. gear oil. Any lighter weight for those two drives and there will be gear and bearing issues. 75-140w syn. gear oil IS comparable to 80-90w conventionable gear oil.

[BA80]

How many years ago was the issue, BA?

Clutch issues are ongoing with those that use synthetic with old friction plates, the starter clutch issues are too. Synthetic is too slippery for the one way clutches designed 40 years ago. Synthetic lubricants only existed in the racing world and aviation then.

[Bonz]

Obviously MD and FD units don't have clutches, I was referring to the "other issues" syn oil causes. The only other issues I can think of for a syn oil to be inaccurately blamed for is leaky seals once we get past the clutch slippage discussion.

Since the MD and FD have seals of similar materials to the engine, they would be prone to the same "other issues" like leakage if it was truly the synthetic base oil as the culprit.

I would be curious when, what brand syn oil and what weight has caused slippage in anyone's clutch, if they have experienced it.

For you haters, I am gonna be sporting full syn oil in the 80SG crankcase for the Colorado rally this summer!

[BA80]

For you haters, I am gonna be sporting full syn oil in the 80SG for the Colorado rally this summer!

Not a hater, simply an informed sceptic.

Have you replaced the frictions in your clutch?

Being a 40 year automotive tech I can also testify to the fact that if there is a place oil can leak, synthetic will find it.

[Bonz]

I like it, informed skeptic. Good description! I know you took my "haters" comment in the humorous tone it was meant.

The 80SG has the original clutch.

I absolutely agree to the fact "synthetic" oil caused leakage when it was first introduced decades and decades ago. The additive package was to blame, not the oil. Tons of good info about that issue on the Internet.

Any name brand synthetic oil (Mobil 1, Castrol, Rotella, Valvoline, etc) is pumped out of the exact same hole in the ground as dino oil. It is differentiated from traditional dino oil by the virtue it is refined by humans to a higher degree (synthesized, thus synthetic naming) and thus the best of the best base stock is used. A 15w-40 syn is going to have no different tendencies than a 15w-40 dino oil when it comes to the base oil other than it will resist breakdown better and won't thicken up as quick at low temps. That has not a thing to do with causing leaks.

What then makes the difference is additives. If a synthetic oil and dino oil of the same weight have the same additive package that is proper of motorcycles, or in other words JASO approved, you won't tell a dimes worth of difference in them, other than the enhanced resistance to breakdown and better flow at low temps of the synthetic.

With respect, when was the last time you saw a direct correlation of leakage being the result of a synthetic oil? 40 years ago you did see issues with synthetic oils causing leaks because of what I have shared about additives. Now days that isn't the case.

[BA80]

Sorry Bonz..............BTW, no offense taken. Like good discussion. Brings out the truth............

http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/q...c-and-dino-oil

[MPittma100]

Synthetic Oil

I have used synthetic oil in racing, motorcycles, and daily drivers. I found no advantage with that oil. Two applications showed excessive oil consumption. These two had no consumption prior to the synthetic addition. They also quit using oil when dino oil was reinstalled.

The cost of synthetic oil is too high and outweighs any "claimed" advantage. Synthetic oil is a waste of money. There is no "magic" in a bottle.

[BA80]

I have used synthetic oil in racing, motorcycles, and daily drivers. I found no advantage with that oil. Two applications showed excessive oil consumption. These two had no consumption prior to the synthetic addition. They also quit using oil when dino oil was reinstalled.

The cost of synthetic oil is too high and outweighs any "claimed" advantage. Synthetic oil is a waste of money. There is no "magic" in a bottle.

I agree Mike. In the engine there really is no advantage. Not in the XS engine anyway. However, in the middle and final drives I've found that synthetic runs cooler and quieter. It IS a superior lubricant particularly in those applications.

[Bonz]

Nice article Greg. However that this is my point and proves my point exactly. The oil I am talking about is true Dino oil that is synthesized to weed out the inconsistent molecules. There was a huge court case 30+ years ago when companies went away from making it in a laboratory to synthesizing Dino oil in the way I am talking about . Synthesizing oil in the legal sense means human hands sifted out the best and left the rest behind. It can also mean making in the laboratory. Synthesizing in the case of all the synthetic oils I have mentioned oil has nothing to do with making it in a laboratory from Controlled Substances, per se. It is not made in a controlled lab like the oil your article references. Boutique synthetic oils such as Red line and a few others are synthesized in laboratory. They are not the topic of discussion. All of the synthetic oils I have mentioned are a dino oil base and not remotely related to the article. I have made that distinction from the start.