The Bagger Project

[Radioguylogs]

Hmmmm

I was hopin' you guys would talk me out of going back in there. It's starting to work.

[Radioguylogs]

Carb Floats by 23mm Method

While I was trying to get used to the idea that I set the valves wrong for 1980MY.......and it should be OK.......

I decided to get back to the carbs and begin adjusting the floats last night.

After I had assembled the carbs a couple of weeks ago, I found a huge variation in the float needle springs. Number 1 and #2 carbs has the usual amount of bounce when I pressed down on them. Number 4 was bottomed out with the just the weight of the float (plastic floats don't leak, BTW). Number 3 was sagging, but not bottomed out like #4.

So I decided I would order another set of float needles, and hope to replace them with a matching set, or at least find two more 'good' ones. I thought my best chance to getting higher quality was Jets-R-Us. I found they sell the needle and the seat for less than the needle by itself. So I procured 4 more sets. When they arrived, I found they were K&L, same as the ones I was having trouble with. None-the-less, I replaced the needles in #3 and #4, and on the first try, they had had the normal bounce.

However, the floats are so far off from the factory setting I am wondering why. Either the needles are shorter, the springs are softer, or the seat has different dimensions. Take a look at this:

Here is float# 1 with the new needle valve before adjustment:



Here is float# 4 with the first needle I installed:



And here is float# 1 after adjustment:



Because the adjustment was so huge, I want peace of mind, so I will check them with gas and plastic hoses to see how they compare in actual gas level.

Meanwhile, thanks to another member for the handy suggestion to cut a gasket to use as a measurement tool. There have been several suggestions, but I really found it convenient to use that particular tip for the '80/'81 style floats.

More to come....

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there,

Take a look at this thread, the link starts with the post by Schming that determined the difference between the Mikuni and K&L brand float needles!

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showpost.php?p=466977&postcount=93

The previous page is a great float post repair as well!

T.C.

[Radioguylogs]

Very Interesting

T.C.

Thanks for showing that post. Ironically John (Schming) was doing float needles again last night.

I was very curious after I read the post you showed, so I grabbed a few pictures of my situation.

First thing I discovered was that one of my needles has a severely bent wire on it....this would pre-compress the spring by forcing the float tab into the body against the spring. Maybe this was the needle on Float#4 (next to a Mikuni):



After I straightened the wire, the K&L and the Mikuni have same overall dimensions, although the 'slot' under the K&L wire is fatter and takes up more of the body (with no consequence):



Finally, I compered the overall K&L needle in the K&L valve seat with the same Mikuni parts and didn't find any problem:



I think John's picture shows the K&L needle in a Mikuni valve seat- so that would be something to watch out for.

Makes for interesting discussion.

[Radioguylogs]

Rear Bearings and Splines

It's on my 'to do' list for my other 3 bikes, and hasn't been done because I keep buying more bikes. I need to clean and pack all the bearings and lube the driveshaft spline.

Since the Bagger has more miles, it's time to get used to doing these things.

SO.... here is where we are now:



Bless the heart(s) of the previous owners- the driveshaft tube was filled with grease and it did make it to the driveshaft splines:



The splines look completely happy:



Guess that zirk fitting is capable of doing something if you pump enough grease into it.

Now I am ready to service the swing arm bearings and rear wheel bearings. I tried once before the remove the oil seals from the front wheel on one of my Triples, and I was going to destroy the seal before getting it out- so I left it. I need advice on how to remove the oil seals from the swing arm bearings and from the wheel bearings without destroying the seals.

[Radioguylogs]

Shocks

The Bagger had air shocks on it.

I like the idea of having adjustable shocks for a touring bike.

However, these shocks are getting rusty and they are old:



I've read some of the older posts, and trying to imagine what I should do for this ride. I might be willing spend $250, but not much more than that.

I want them to look correct for the bike, so I don't want odd color and odd shapes that might be cool on a crotch rocket or café racer. I like chrome.

Suggestions?.....

[kboehringer]

Partzilla!

SNIP.....I need advice on how to remove the oil seals from the swing arm bearings and from the wheel bearings without destroying the seals.

Mike,
We're doing similar work on our bikes at the same time! EVERY XS11 Wheel Seal & the Swing Arm Seals are available from Partzilla in OEM Yamaha Packaging. They average about $5 each (+/-). I just received mine at the end of last week.



FWIW: I've gotten lucky pulling one or two of the bigger ones with a seal pick or tiny pry bar. Unfortunately, I've been less successful with the smaller ones (swing arm) as I usually mess up the spring on the ID.

Sincerely,
Kurt

[Radioguylogs]

New seals instead

Kurt:

...Sounds like $30 well spent.

Thanks for the tip.

[Radioguylogs]

Have Parts

I've rounded up seals for the wheels and swing arm. I bought new wheel bearings. Based on the condition of the swingarm bearings, I decided they didn't need to be replaced, and I anticipated the steering bearing would probably be OK to reuse when I got into there.

Shocks haven't arrived yet. I wanted to get something that looked like the stock shocks, preferably air adjustable, but there was not much available. I finally settled on these from the United Kingdom:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorc...hock-absorbers

I was ready to push "Place order" on a pair of Dunlop 404's only because that was what was already on the rear.....but then my better judgment had me read the previous posts in this forum. I saw how Greg rode from Oklahoma to Wisconsin and back and wore out a new rear 404. I saw others had the same experience with not much good to say about them. After reading everything in the not-so-distant past, I bought a pair of Shinko 712s because nobody had anything bad to say about them...and there were lots of positive comments... and the price was $100/pr.!

I took Marty's advice and bought two of these:

They are nicer than I expected. Nice chrome plating. About 12" in length- bigger than I expected. I am guessing Marty advised me to get two of them because the steering head has a locking nut on top of another nut?


On to a question.....

My swing arm bearings are tapered- seems different than the manuals I have. I have the 78-79 Factory manual and also have the Clymer's manual. They both show that the swing arm bearing bolts should be tightened to something like 47 ft-lbs and the lock nuts should be something like 57 ft-lbs (without letting the bolts move). Those setting seem appropriate for a non-tapered bearings. I guess I should tighten the bolts until the bearings start to bind, and the locknuts will pull them to the correct looseness....repeat as necessary....then repeat again to make it centered within 1.6mm?

[Schming]

Hey Mike, SA bearings are seated at 47 inch lbs. not foot lbs.

[Radioguylogs]

Hey Mike, SA bearings are seated at 47 inch lbs. not foot lbs.

That could make difference. I'll read it again when get back into town.

Thanks John.

[Schming]

You read correctly

That could make difference. I'll read it again when get back into town.

Thanks John.

And you will be correct that the manual states 47 ft-lbs, which is incorrect as the correct torque is indeed 47 inch lbs.

[Radioguylogs]

Yup

John:

Just as you said, I looked again and the Clymer's manual would have those Swing Arm bearings so tight they would be ruined.

I looked in my E/F/SF factory manual, and it shows 43-52 in-lbs for the Pivot Bolts, and 72 ft-lbs for the Locknuts.

Thanks for answering my concern.

[Radioguylogs]

Keeping up with the Boehringers

I installed the Swing Arm, U-Joint, Drive Shaft, and Final Drive.

I mounted the new Shinko 712 on the rear and balanced it. Not as pretty or slick as Kurt's set-up:



Speaking of Boehringer's... while at the hospital on Saturday, I found that Kurt's been holding out on us:


My mind wandered off to vaccum synchronization.

Meanwhile, back to bike. I finally came to trouble on two frontiers.

Final Drive Vent

While shining up the Final Drive before re-installing it, I found plier marks on the vent cap. I noticed it was not seated correctly and it was crooked. So I bopped it a couple of times with a rubber mallet and it came right off. It had been glued on with some black flexible adhesive, like RTV Silicone. Here is what it looks like after removing the glue:



And the cap has a small knub to correspond to the vent hole, but it's too short to fit inside the vent hole and hold it on:


Any ideas what to do with this?

Rear Wheel Bearings

Based on mileage, I planned for new wheel bearings. I had the LR on the shelf already, and I bought the others from Partzilla.

I pulled the seals and found the RR bearing was replaced recently, and the idiot glued it in! (Undoubtedly the same person that put the front tire on the rear).

There is no way to get the spacer off to the side enough to beat on the outer race of either bearing.

I decide I want to ruin the RR bearing since the LR might be nice to keep as a spare.

I have tried beating on the RR bearing directly using a punch, and through the spacer. Nothing.

I decided to rest and read before I go back and start heating it and beating on it some more.

I have chill spray, and I noted Kurt's advice about goggles.

Ideas are very, very welcome.

[kboehringer]

Keeping up with MIKE!

I installed the Swing Arm, U-Joint, Drive Shaft, and Final Drive.

Even if it didn't need any attention, isn't it nice to know you've inspected EVERY piece of that driveline! Yours had some grease in it....Mine did not!

I mounted the new Shinko 712 on the rear and balanced it. Not as pretty or slick as Kurt's set-up.

Maybe not as pretty but it surely looks quite functional. Besides, with your set-up the baskets are dual purpose. When your done using them for balancing tires they can serve another useful purpose!

Speaking of Boehringer's... while at the hospital on Saturday, I found that Kurt's been holding out on us:

I am related to that family/company but not closely enough to get any XS11 money out of them - LOL . We own some stock in Boehringer Pharmaceuticals though! If my father were alive he could draw all the family lines......

I found plier marks on the vent cap. I noticed it was not seated correctly and it was crooked. So I bopped it a couple of times with a rubber mallet and it came right off. It had been glued on with some black flexible adhesive, like RTV Silicone. SNIP.... and found the RR bearing was replaced recently, and the idiot glued it in! (Undoubtedly the same person that put the front tire on the rear). .

Seems the guys that owned my bikes were related to the guy that owned yours! (I doubt they were Boehringers - LOL) Did you see the Carbs the previous owner of my bike beat the heck out of with a hammer to free stuck floats?

heating SNIP and I have chill spray, and I noted Kurt's advice about goggles.

At work we frequently high heat and quick chill bearings & races that have been in place for DECADES. The quick changes in temp from high to low followed by a hard smack with a punch or chisel and they explode.... problem resolved. But, the goggles or full face shield is MANDATORY!

I have an extra spacer or two from my XS rims that I won't be using so if you need a replacement just let me know!

Sincerely,
KURT