The Bagger Project

[Radioguylogs]

I've enjoyed following the threads of others that bought projects, and kept us posted as they revived them.

Many of you saw my posts here and there as I fixed up a basket case SF that I bought for $400. I finally had it fully ride-able this year, although it needs a few items to make it 'perfectly' maintained.

I decided to start the story of my new purchase, 1980 XS1100SG with full fairing and hard bags.

I brought it home and gave it bath, to remove years of dust. Here it is, except the luggerack/backrest and taillight are removed to fit on my trailer:


I bought it Friday. Good thing I washed it Friday because we got 16" of snow on Saturday! BTW Looks better in the picture than real life.

While it was snowing, I took inventory and went to work. Despite 39k miles, this bike is in much better shape than any of my previous projects.

The only item that is not stock is the fuse panel has been reworked, and while this 'repair' is functionally OK, none of us would be proud of it:


First order of business was to drain the old gas from the tank and the carbs. Too bad the petcocks were left in the ON position. The Octy is there, but apparently has became tired along the way. There are gas stains down the sides of the carburators and all over the top and sides of the engine.

Next I drained nearly 5 quarts of gasoil from the crankcase.

Next I want to know the compression, so off with the fairing:


I don't want to crank too much without oil in the crankcase, but I quickly measured 122/70/118/129; cold with the throttle wide open.

#2 doesn't look happy. I had noticed the plug was loose when I removed it and it had carbon all the way up the threads, indicating it was leaking exhaust. I can see the hole threads look somewhat distorted, I really hope they are not stripped. So far I have put light torque on the threads and they are holding. For now, I'll hope it's not stripped.

So I put a couple of little squirts of oil in the cylinders and got 124/77/124/134. Still troubled by the reading in #2.

So, next I'm gonna remove the carbs, and re-shim the valves.

Then I think I should clean the carbs and put them back on and find out now if I can fix #2 with MMO and exercise. I want to know now if I'm gonna have to pull the head.

So, that's the report so far. Looking for any more thoughts from the community about low compression in #2. I'm secretly hoping that was the one with open exhaust valve while it sat for years, and maybe it rusted a little.

PS: We have spark! Never bought a project that already had spark.

[kboehringer]

Looking forward to it!

SNIP
....although it needs a few items to make it 'perfectly' maintained.
SNIP
......because we got 16" of snow on Saturday! BTW Looks better in the picture than real life.
SNIP
......thoughts from the community about low compression in #2. I'm secretly hoping that was the one with open exhaust valve while it sat for years, and maybe it rusted a little.

Mike,
I'm REALLY looking forward to watching your work on this one! Question: What in the world do you need for that BEAUTIFUL SF? That thing looked like it just came off the showroom floor (before the XSSE rain )! By watching you, maybe I can learn how to turn one of my XS11's into a beauty like your SF.

I hope your right about the #2 compression. Seems a reasonable hypothesis. I was not at all convinced that MMO was going to help with my low compression but it did. Seemed to go against everything I ever knew.

Enjoy the snow! I'm a native of a snowy area and haven't seen any REAL snow in 15+ years. Not many white Christmas' in ATL.

Looking forward to your progress.

Sincerely,
KURT

[jimp1967]

Nice bike!

That is a clean bike! Can't wait to see you get it going! I bought a '81 SH that had sat a good while and the PO tried to drill out a broken valve cover bolt and broke a corner of the head off. Had to buy a replacement head. The head I took off had 2 exhaust valves that weren't seating closed due to carbon around the stems. So it's possible you have a valve sticking or sticking rings, MMO has helped a bunch of people free up their engines. Also check your valve clearances. I just joined XS11 and already have received great advice from the members here, they know these bikes!!

[Radioguylogs]

Mike,
I'm REALLY looking forward to watching your work on this one! Question: What in the world do you need for that BEAUTIFUL SF? KURT

The (now longer) term maintenance for the SF:

*Replace all the shift linkage this winter and hope the shift lever stops sticking - have to remove the exhaust to do it.

**I haven't touched the wheel bearings, the steering bearings, the swing arm bearings, the dive shaft spline, or the U Joint. Maybe in the next couple of years I can start pecking away at these items.

Before I bought the bagger, I had asked for a windscreen for the SF as my birthday gift. I already received it -> National Plexistar2, so I need to install it in next few weeks. I did this as direct result of my experience with the fogging face shield during XSSE rain. Seems ironic now.

[MaximPhil]

Hi Mike,
Thanks for sharing your latest project with us. That garage floor looks pristine so try not to spill any oil on it. Is the first picture taken in front of your Castle ? Looking forward to hearing how the #2 picks up compression and functions properly.
Phil

[skids]

Hey, to hell with the bike. I want that house!!!

[Radioguylogs]

The house is a side bar.

Yeah, Louann and I made this house from our dreams. I only have an old picture handy, from the time it was completed in 2006:



The architect and the builder kept providing reasons why we couldn't do it, but we were persistent.

We're starting to plan for our retirement house now.
______________________________
Now back to the business at hand.

I won't have any big progress for a couple of days, but found a red straw in the gas tank, like the Gumout choke cleaner straw. The washer is missing between the oil filter and the spring underneath. Funny little stuff.

[MaximPhil]

Hi Mike,
Nice house.
Phil

[Bikes]

Nice bike, I love the bagger look....and the extended riding it affords.......
I had a problem with #2 also...popping at an idle.....MMO in two tanks of gas...settled down nicely, runs great....
Good luck with her and keep is posted.....

[dbmb0416]

Nice bike. I also purchased mine for $400. Needed new final drive,gear box and front calipers. $350 parts and great bike.

[Radioguylogs]

Found the problem with #2 Compression

Pulled the carbs. The outside is gunky and badly stained with leaked gas, but they look really good inside, just a little dirt in the fuel bowls:





The engine underneath the carbs is stained by the dripping gas over the past four years:



Moved on to check the valve shim clearances:

Intake 0.076 / 0/127 / 0.127 / 0.127 Spec is 0.16-0.20mm
Exhaust 0.178 / 0.178 / 0.152 / 0.178 Spec is 0.21-0.24mm

I measure with English feeler gages, not metric, hence the unusual "not-rounded" values.

Mostly good news, everything is basically one size tight, except #1 Intake is two sizes tight. I pulled the shims, and unfortunately I can only swap two of the eight, therefore I have find six more, none of which are in my collection.

So......I recognized the valves in troublesome #2 cylinder seem remarkably consistent with the others- I was thinking there was no chance of a dirt under the valve, or the valve sticking...etc.

So I remembered how the plug threads seems unusual when I was taking stuff apart. I went back and looked the spark plug thread on #2, and found that the hole was never completely threaded from the factory! There is a sliver at the bottom of the hole about 1/3 of the circumference of the hole that is not threaded. This sliver is about 3/32" thick:



I remembered that I used a fitting on my compression gage that was the same thread length as the plugs themselves. I tried it again with a shorter fitting and measured140 PSI !!!

There is no welding, no helicoil, no sleeve, and no discontinuity in the surrounding aluminum. I think it has been that way since was built.

Now....this is where you guys come in....how to tap it without leaving shavings in the cylinder? Some preliminary ideas:
(1) Put a magnet on the tap.
(2) Close the valves, put a small magnet in the cylinder
(3) Open both valves and connect a vacuum to the exhaust pipe.
(4) Open the intake valve and blow compressed air into it.

...or some combination of the above. Unfortunately, I already put some oil in the cylinder, so I made it a little sticky inside.

Suggestions would be helpful.

So glad the problem is relatively simple if we figure how to contain the metal chips.

More later....

[Radioguylogs]

Oops

Just before I went asleep I realized it was silly to think a magnet would help me keep aluminum shavings out of my cylinder....NEVERMIND that idea.

[kboehringer]

Pull the head....

Mike,
Probably not what you want the suggestion to be but I would pull the head. I pulled the head on my DUCK and it really wasn't too big a deal.

JUSTIFICATION:
Just ONE little bit of aluminum left in the cylinder could really screw up your cylinder walls. One little bit that gets down on the edge of the upper crown of that piston that your vacuum or compressed air or other method doesn't catch is a potential cylinder/piston KILLER!

Also, this bike has a whole lot more miles than any of your other bikes. It's still a very minimal amount of miles for an XS11, but those valve seals are also 35 years old. While you have the head off remove the carbon from the combustion chambers, change the valve seals, and lap/polish the valve seats!

You can do the whole deal for much less than $100 (I think I paid about $80 for a complete gasket kit which included valve seals) and several hours of your labor. There's plenty of time to get it done with a bunch of snow in your area you can't drive for months anyway!

Very Respectfully,
Kurt

[jetmechmarty]

You could liberally slather the tap with grease before you start cutting. If the gods of all things mechanical are favorable to you, all of the shavings will be stuck in the grease.


I would probably choose a plug tap.

[Radioguylogs]

Those Thoughts are Appreciated

Marty:

I had to go on-line to learn about plug taps. You idea is appreciated. I imagine quite a lot of chips based on the 3/32 thickness of material, and the grease would only remain in the slots between the cutting surfaces. Seems like I would have to go to church twice on Sunday to make the God that happy. But it's still a viable option- ...the grease, not 2xchurch.

Kurt:

I had read in a post a couple of of years ago that one couldn't pull the head with the engine on the bike....but I did see a response from another member claiming he did it. So, I assume you were able to do it without removing the engine? Seems I would know this from the amount of reading I have done on this forum, but honestly, I don't know for sure.

I have been thinking about the valve seals, and lapping the valves. It certainly would be peace-of-mind thing to do. However, seems like I would be silly not to do the rings while I was in there. At 40k miles, I'll find the cylinder walls have an hour glass shape perpendicular to the wrist pins... and the out-of-round will be out-of spec at the top an bottom of the cylinder. It would kill me (for at least awhile) to put it back together knowing that. So, I would need new oversize pistons, new rings, and a shop to bore it.

Then the cam chain would want to be replaced "while I was at it".

Still... the cost/effort is not that bad, if I do as you suggested instead of going overboard.

I'll have to think about it some more.

New Idea

There is lots of good thread in the hole, and the problem spot doesn't contribute to the thread strength because the opposite side is not as deep. The problem spot is just material hanging on the one side. I was think that it doesn't necessarily need to be threaded. I was thinking may I could get a Dremel, and rig a small vacuum hose. The Dremel chips and grit will be small particles, and if I keep the vacuum hose on the downwind side of the cutting action, I could be home free in seconds. If something is not caught by the vacuum, it would be small (instead of a big sharp chip from tapping). After I'm done, I could stick the vacuum hose in the cylinder and have second chance to catch any lost materials.

Maybe I could clean the inside of the cylinder with solvent to make it no-so sticky before I let anything get into it.

Hmmmm.....a vacuum hose might be good for removing chips if I went with tapping. Big chips would vacuum easily.


Still thinking......