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  • After rebuild major oil consumption!!!....

    Ok so after I finished rebuilding the engine bottom to the head. I got it started running a bit rough, but I noticed my cyclinder #4 is not firing, the spark plug is black and wet. Oil is actually dripping from the muffler... Wtf did I do wrong? I followed specs and everything I could find in the rebuild manual. I made sure the rings were clean and freely moving. Soaked and made sure they were clean and replaced without crimping or bending them awkwardly. I have rewired and replaced coils, plug wires and plugs. I am getting spark, I tested the plugs they are firing. I have burned about half the oil, from what I can see and the oil light is now flickering and staying on. So that ended my tuning evening, I am guessing here but am I looking at a tear down again? I have not tried the MMO, still looking for it. Side note I haven't even taken it out of the garage. And it doesn't want to stay running, this probably the carbs still trying tune them.

    Thanks for any ideas and help!
    79 XS11

  • #2
    First steps make sure you only have oil in crankcase. Carbs can have problems and leak gas back into cylinders which mixes with oil and foams up and is sucked threw standard air box and burnt. Smell for gas smell in oil

    Do a compression check all cylinders. If compression is low on a cylinder put a little thick oil in cylinder and see if compression jumps. If it does its a ring problem causing compression and possibly oil consumption issue.

    Compression does not change you could have a stuck bent or worn valve can cause it to burn oil.

    Oil seal on a valve not seated or cracked can cause excessive oil consumption.

    poorly seated or blown head gasket could leak oil into cylinder.

    Crack in head could leak to intake or exhaust port or cylinder.
    To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

    Rodan
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
    1980 G Silverbird
    Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
    1198 Overbore kit
    Grizzly 660 ACCT
    Barnett Clutch Springs
    R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
    122.5 Main Jets
    ACCT Mod
    Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
    Antivibe Bar ends
    Rear trunk add-on
    http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/

    Comment


    • #3
      Quick Question

      Barring anything being wrong that ViperRon has mentioned, one quick question - did you hone the cylinder sleeves? If yes, did you measure them before and after with a micrometer to see if they might already be at their limit? And did you measure the piston diameters also? Any of this stuff being off will cause excessive oil consumption but it will be in the form of blue smoke.

      First thing, I would do a compression test, motor hot, throttle wide open. I know you are having carb trouble too so bench sync them and see if you can get it started to warm it up. If all your compression readings are the same then next thing to do is check further before starting to take everything apart again. It would be good to pinpoint the trouble and that will take a leak down test. With a leak down it will pinpoint rings, bent, burned or poorly seating valves, etc. cylinder by cylinder. The go from there.
      Mike Giroir
      79 XS-1100 Special

      Once you un-can a can of worms, the only way to re-can them is with a bigger can.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thinking a little more I just want to make sure you are not getting on a garden path. You may have multiple issues causing it to look like a catastrophe. Do the basic checks I mentioned and check for leaks the amount of oil you say you are loosing seems high for just burning. If you find a bad leak then you might have a carb problem causing the bad running bad plug in number 4. You may have an ignition issue causing number 4 problem but best bet is test before you start taking things apart. Do compression test and let us know results we will help suggest what to do next.
        To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

        Rodan
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
        1980 G Silverbird
        Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
        1198 Overbore kit
        Grizzly 660 ACCT
        Barnett Clutch Springs
        R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
        122.5 Main Jets
        ACCT Mod
        Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
        Antivibe Bar ends
        Rear trunk add-on
        http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok I'll comp check when I get home from work tonight and I'll grab some thicker oil as I just put fresh oil into and it's not even on the oil check glass anymore. The last thing I want to do is tear it all down again. I did not bore or hone it down. It was done when my father rebuilt it(6k km ago), he didn't bore it out but did hone it. The sleeves looked fairly good and smooth as I have seen in any of my engines after honing.
          I literally just put the tank on and opened the petcocks, not 5 before I started it. I don't believe much gas would get into the tank that fast as I do the bike up on the center stand as well. I really just finished assembling it and checking all connections and lines were connected right.
          What I mean by amount of oil being consumed is I ran it for about 5 mins trying to get the carbs synced. The oil light came on and I shut it off, oil started to drip at that point. Just for clarification thanks again!
          Last edited by Faltang1090; 10-16-2015, 02:18 PM.
          79 XS11

          Comment


          • #6
            If it was burning oil from ring problems or even from a worn valve guide and seal it could not have pumped more than a couple of tablespoons full in 5-10 minutes. What you seem to be telling us is a quart or more disappeared. The oil went somewhere that much oil should have left a big puddle.
            To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

            Rodan
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
            1980 G Silverbird
            Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
            1198 Overbore kit
            Grizzly 660 ACCT
            Barnett Clutch Springs
            R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
            122.5 Main Jets
            ACCT Mod
            Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
            Antivibe Bar ends
            Rear trunk add-on
            http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Faltang1090 View Post
              Ok I'll comp check when I get home from work tonight and I'll grab some thicker oil as I just put fresh oil into and it's not even on the oil check glass anymore. The last thing I want to do is tear it all down again. I did not bore or hone it down. It was done when my father rebuilt it(6k km ago), he didn't bore it out but did hone it. The sleeves looked fairly good and smooth as I have seen in any of my engines after honing.
              I literally just put the tank on and opened the petcocks, not 5 before I started it. I don't believe much gas would get into the tank that fast as I do the bike up on the center stand as well. I really just finished assembling it and checking all connections and lines were connected right.
              What I mean by amount of oil being consumed is I ran it for about 5 mins trying to get the carbs synced. The oil light came on and I shut it off, oil started to drip at that point. Just for clarification thanks again!
              Hopefully there is a cross-hatch pattern from doing the cyl. hone job. The cross hatch pattern is what traps the oil where the hone marks criss cross each other.
              81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by motoman View Post
                Hopefully there is a cross-hatch pattern from doing the cyl. hone job. The cross hatch pattern is what traps the oil where the hone marks criss cross each other.
                BTW, if necessary to seat the rings, add a half of tablespoon of Bon-Amyto each cyl.........plugs back in and fire it up and let run for 30min, or till it reaches operating temp..
                81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Faltang1090 View Post
                  I noticed my cylinder #4 is not firing, the spark plug is black and wet. Oil is actually dripping from the muffler
                  This may just be raw fuel washing the crud out of the muffler, sometimes this is mistaken for motor oil, JAT.
                  2H7 (79) owned since '89
                  3H3 owned since '06

                  "If it ain't broke, modify it"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Your bottom oil ring on the piston is comprised of a wavy ring sandwiched by a thin ring above and below this. If the ends of the wavy ring get pushed together and overlap during assembly.. like one sheet of a tin roof overlaps another... it won't expand and contact the cylinder wall correctly and wipe the cylinder down with a very thin coating of oil like designed.

                    Just my guess here.
                    Last edited by trbig; 10-23-2015, 06:44 AM.
                    Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                    You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                    Current bikes:
                    '06 Suzuki DR650
                    *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                    '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                    '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                    '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                    '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                    '81 XS1100 Special
                    '81 YZ250
                    '80 XS850 Special
                    '80 XR100
                    *Crashed/Totalled, still own

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What grit of hone did you use?

                      Your oil light should never flicker or stay on while the engine is running. Stop the motor and add oil immediately if this happens. The fastest way to kill an engine is starving it of oil. While this may seem obvious to most on this forum, the number of people I meet who don't know have this basic knowledge is stunning. Also, keep the oil between the dipstick/sight marks as some engines use splash lubrication in addition to pressure feed.

                      My neighbor killed his wife's bike a few months ago this way. (he was borrowing it as his wasn't running) The guy is 45. I talked to him about it after it happened. He rode the bike to work several times with the oil light on. His wife knew more about basic maintenance than he did.
                      Last edited by Orange4; 10-25-2015, 10:18 AM.
                      Living to EXcess.
                      1978 XS1100E Canadian, Cartridge emulators, NOS heavy duty fork springs,
                      Showa rear shocks, ACCT, Jardine 4-2 spaghetti pipes.
                      1979 XS1100F Canadian, stock exhaust. Top end rebuild in progress.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by motoman View Post
                        BTW, if necessary to seat the rings, add a half of tablespoon of Bon-Amyto each cyl.........plugs back in and fire it up and let run for 30min, or till it reaches operating temp..
                        Cleanser? Really?
                        Skids (Sid Hansen)

                        Down to one 1978 E. Stock air box with K&N filter, 81H pipes and carbs, 8500 feet elevation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by skids View Post
                          Cleanser? Really?
                          No, actually scuffs the rings and actually allows them to seat against the cyc. wall. This was something that was sent with with every rebuild kit for the ole' Cummins inline 6cyl. on big trucks back in the day. Myself, after rebuilding a 292 Ford engine bored and made into a 312c.i. police interceptor having a balanced crank assembly, drove it 10,000 mi., mostly highway miles I had to put a quart in every 200 miles. The dern chrome moly rings would never seat. I ran it up to operating temperature and while running sprinkled a coiple tablespoons of Bon-Amy thru carb intake. Had instant ring seating and no more oil consumption. A bit later, had the truck(F-100 custom cab with the wrap-around rear glass) down in Tuscon,Ariz. Took it to the local strip and raced it. Still have the 1st place trophie from Tuscon Dragway. JAT thought and doing that WILL seat the rings, or hes got other upper valve-train issues.
                          81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, crosshatching the cylinder walls is supposed to do the same thing (seating) but I wouldn't want that stuff in the brass crank bearings and everywhere else with soft metal contacts! I'll admit I have never gone that far with a rebuild, but it just seems intuitive.
                            Skids (Sid Hansen)

                            Down to one 1978 E. Stock air box with K&N filter, 81H pipes and carbs, 8500 feet elevation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by skids View Post
                              Well, crosshatching the cylinder walls is supposed to do the same thing (seating) but I wouldn't want that stuff in the brass crank bearings and everywhere else with soft metal contacts! I'll admit I have never gone that far with a rebuild, but it just seems intuitive.
                              Actually, any excess is spit out the exhaust..............think about it for a sec. Skids.
                              81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                              Comment

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