I really hate to feel this needy, but...

[Hmar]

Ok, so after everything this summer, did first/second gear fix, got through the clutch problems I created with that, got 2 amazing weeks of riding when, on my way home from work the other day, bike starts to misfire. got it home, making a rattling noise, like ghosts dragging chains. Spark plugs didn't look too bad, changed them anyway. I did the cam chain adjustment. Misfire seems to be gone, but if anything the rattling is worse. Any ideas?
Thanks
I really do wish I could offer more help to others here then just being a cautionary tale...

[3Phase]

Ok, so after everything this summer, did first/second gear fix, got through the clutch problems I created with that, got 2 amazing weeks of riding when, on my way home from work the other day, bike starts to misfire. got it home, making a rattling noise, like ghosts dragging chains. Spark plugs didn't look too bad, changed them anyway. I did the cam chain adjustment. Misfire seems to be gone, but if anything the rattling is worse. Any ideas?
Thanks
I really do wish I could offer more help to others here then just being a cautionary tale...

H'mar,

That does 'sound' like it could be a familiar problem: the transmission output /drive axle end bolt might have come loose.

Take off the oil filler cap, look down through the hole, I think the special bolt is visible just behind the clutch basket but I don't have an engine together at this exact moment.

IF the bolt is loose you'll have to pull the clutch cover and the clutch basket so you can get at the bolt. Clean the oil off the bolt and the transmission shaft threads with brake cleaner or any other cleaner that doesn't leave any residue, then add some Loctite and torque the bolt back down to 51 ft-lb.

If it comes loose again there's something wrong with the way you set up the gears or the shaft when you did the 2nd gear fix. Find out what is happening or ask anyone here what you should do, don't just keep adding Loctite and tightening the bolt.



When the bolt comes loose it will unscrew itself until it hits the gear on the back of the clutch basket and start to grind down the flats on the bolt head. The loose washer slings around the bolt shank and the whole enchilada makes a ringing and jangling sound like a ghost dragging chains. .

When the special bolt is loose, the transmission output shaft/drive axle and the gear stack isn't being held to the inner race of the bearing in the right-hand side of the engine case.

The gear wheel dogs and slots can move on the shaft and slam into each other as the transmission shaft moves back and forth. Mostly it's just noisy but it can knock chunks off of the gear dogs and slots as it tries to go into gear.

.

[MaximPhil]

After reading all that I am going to have nightmares to night
HMar PLEEEASE tell us when you have fixed that.
Phil

[3Phase]

After reading all that I am going to have nightmares to night
HMar PLEEEASE tell us when you have fixed that.
Phil

It's not that bad, it's mostly just noisy unless you ignore it. You should see the bolt -- I think it was Tod's -- with most of the flats ground off by the clutch basket gear, it looked more like a pointy Japanese hat than a bolt.

Oh, and leave the bike on the centerstand until you figure out if the bolt is loose. If you have to fix it, then you can put it on the sidestand to pull the clutch cover.

The transmission will try to pop into gear just sitting there with the engine idling and that can take the bike right off the sidestand while you watch. Go ahead, ask me how I know. :rolleyes

.

[Hmar]

So, I finally got a chance to get the clutch cover off, and found that bolt out completely. It is wedged behind the clutch basket, which seems to be stuck pretty well. Ran out of time, so I didn't manage to get it out, but it looks like I'll have to replace the bolt. Any idea what kind of damage I'll be looking at from that bolt floating free (and the shaft it was attached to)?
Thanks for your help, I don't think I ever would have thought of that on my own.

[3Phase]

You'll have to remove the clutch basket to put the bolt back and get a torque wrench on it. Be careful with the star plate on the clutch!

There's really no way to tell what happened to the transmission without a belt-and-suspenders check by draining the oil and dropping the oil pan. That's what I did but you could skip the check and just look around a couple of times real fast to see if anyone's watching, torque the bolt back down with Loctite, put the clutch back on, fill the engine with oil and go ride.

However you do it, keep an eye/ear open in case the bolt comes loose again.

.

[Hmar]

Thanks,
Hopefully I'll be able to do this tonight.

[LoHo]

Scott, that was an amazing diagnosis based on almost nothing. This site is incredible!

Makes me want to ask an oil question....

[3Phase]

... Makes me want to ask an oil question....

And I have oil the answers! <waggling eyebrows, flicking cigar and dodging tomatoes>

I got lucky.

I saw he'd done the gear fixes and it's a pretty distinct kind of sound that you never forget, the only thing missing is the spooky voice going, "Wooo... woooo... WOOOOO!"

When it happened to me, the bolt kept coming loose. After the third time I pulled the engine and split the cases again to measure everything so I could figure out what was wrong. The shims were a few thousands off.

.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Hmar and Scott,

That bolt/washer combo for the 81 is a bit different, the washer is actually called a SHOULDER washer, and there is a slight SHOULDER recess and ridge on the inside edge of the bolt head/washer itself...and that washer needs to be properly centered. If it's off a bit so that it's not truly flush/flat with the bolt washer head/shoulder, then the bolt can't be torqued properly, and the vibration does then shake it loose!!! SO aside from the ~51 foot pounds needed to secure it..the locktite helps to further ensure it doesn't work loose again.

Just inspect the teeth of the underside of the clutch basket....as well as the teeth on the idler gear that drives the oil pump, make sure they are intact and not broken/worn down. Like Scott said, if all looks okay, then put it back together and RIDE!!

T.C.

[Hmar]

Thanks all,
and I think I did hear the moaning...
Anyway, I got the basket off, and I'd say the bolt is pretty well shot

It also looks like I may have the wrong washer on it, as it looks nothing like the one in the picture. Anyone know where I can buy a bolt and washer for this?
the teeth all look ok, the only damage I see is to the bolt itself.

[dpotter58]

I don't have an '81 bolt but I'll bet someone on here does.
Scott. Good call man.

[BowlingSS]

Place an ad in the wanted to buy section. Someone should have one.

Good luck.
Bill

[3Phase]

H'mar, your bolt looks like Tod's did, a Japanese pointy hat!

I think I have a spare two-step bolt for the late-model XS/XJ transmission, send me a PM. Is the washer still good or did it get beaten to death making the Wham-O Hula Hoop shoop-shoop sound on the bolt?

T.C., the picture is a two-step bolt with the special washer for the skinny bearing. The early model bolt looks the same but without the steps and a separate washer so I imagine that it's not nearly as spooky sounding with no spacer washer to play sling-and-ring if the bolt comes loose.

.

[Hmar]

Thanks for all the help, the bolt worked, no more haunting
Next up: misfire on the highway, idles fine. Turn signals only work sometimes. And second gear is slipping again. I seem to remember the PO telling me he had paid someone to fix second, and it only lasted a few weeks. Anybody have any idea what could cause that?