Synthetic Oil drip

[Bonz]

Even more enjoyable than picking lint off 3Phase's dog, by golly!

And yes, a liquid cooled lump will be a whole lot easier on oil. I still have good shifting at the 4000-5000 mile mark on an oil change with the ZRX. 2500 miles on the XS oil is just about right on based on how shifting goes away, especially toward the end of an OCI in really hot temps, like the Durango Rally a few years back.

I should have done an analysis on the Delo LE I drained out of the XS this spring, right at 2500 miles.

[CaptonZap]

2500 miles on the XS oil is just about right on based on how shifting goes away, especially toward the end of an OCI in really hot temps, like the Durango Rally a few years back.

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For those that were wondering, OCI = oil change interval.

What are they charging for an analysis now days?
Must make for an expensive OC.

CZ

[3Phase]

Bonz, you should have had your XS checked just so you don't get all paranoid and start hearing noises when you're out in the middle of nowhere with nothing to think about and the sound of your own wheels making you crazy.

Yes, UOA is 'spendy. Suddenly a simple oil change isn't simple any more and I've read about some problems people were having or suspected they were having with the accuracy of their Used Oil Analysis. I was going to save an oil change and send samples to different labs, wait a while, then send a couple more samples of the same oil to the same labs and see what they came up with. Others have done the same thing with mixed results but it's expensive so I gave up on the idea and went back to picking lint off the dogs.

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[Bonz]

Blackstone charges $25. I did it out of curiosity more than anything, and could put that toward super-duper engine oil I guess, and then dump expensive oil that doesn't protect any better than the Dino oils... I haven't done analysis on the XS simply because I do change it at 2500 mile intervals vs 4000-5000 miles on the ZRX. It's been great fun being able to show the facts about engine protection vs the myths when the opportunity presents itself in an oil thread.

[CaptonZap]

It's been great fun being able to show the facts about engine protection vs the myths when the opportunity presents itself in an oil thread.

Huumph! Show off.







Hey Scott, what do you do with all that lint? Need any help?

CZ

[3Phase]

Blackstone charges $25. I did it out of curiosity more than anything, and could put that toward super-duper engine oil I guess, and then dump expensive oil that doesn't protect any better than the Dino oils... I haven't done analysis on the XS simply because I do change it at 2500 mile intervals vs 4000-5000 miles on the ZRX. It's been great fun being able to show the facts about engine protection vs the myths when the opportunity presents itself in an oil thread.

$25 is one or two oil changes and a filter for me, it depends if anything is on sale when it's time to change the oil. When I was riding and putting 20K or more on the bike with 2K oil changes I was spending $300 to $400 a year on oil and filters.

What myths do you believe you've dispelled? Most 'synthetic' oil isn't really 'synthetic'; it's better than it used to be; it has similar additives as dino juice. Uh huh.

Synthetic oil isn't more prone to leaking than dino oil? <bzzt!> It depends. Synthetic oil will clean dirt out of old seals, worn parts and dirty threads and they'll leak. Volant says the washer was still on the drain plug so I don't know what happened. I've used Redline -- real synthetic oil -- and it didn't leak a drop anywhere but something went wrong for Volant and, "it stopped doing that!" when he went back to dino.

You put a Low Emission HDEO in a watercooled engine and it still had ~1000 ppm of zinc left when you changed it. There's a surprise. I'm actually very interested in some <steps over crack> solid water/fuel contamination numbers for your water-mill if <throwing pinch of salt over shoulder> you have them because <crossing self> I don't deal in myths or superstition any more than the next guy and the XS can dump a lot of fuel and water into the oil.</cross>

Huumph! Show off.







Hey Scott, what do you do with all that lint? Need any help?

CZ

I keep it in my navel like everyone else does so I have something to gaze at during tire and oil threads of course.

The new GF6 specs are supposed to have some kind of 'A' and 'B' API designation for use with modern and legacy engines. How long do you think it'll be before someone snags a loss leader oil fill from the local parts house and finds out what great power and gas mileage you can get with 0w-4 wt oil!

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[Bonz]

Yeah, that is the cost of an oil change or two for sure, but like I said its a curiosity thing. And guys that argue synthetic protects better can't convince me, the wear numbers have been virtually identical between synthetic and Dino oil.

For the ZRX, Antifreeze and water contamination is 0% in 25,000 miles of analysis, and fuel contamination is <.5% over the same distance.

The only advantage the synthetic oil has, is the flash points at the end of an oil change interval are consistently around 400 degrees Fahrenheit, the Dino oils are in the 375 degree range.

Are zinc and phosphorus numbers going to be lower at the end of an oil change interval? I would believe them to be very similar to unused virgin oil samples before use. Zinc and phosphorus don't get used up, per se other than they get used but don't disappear, to my knowledge?

[motoman]

Hold up a bit Bonz, I seriously ran out of popcorn(dog ate it).

[3Phase]

No coolant leaks, no condensation and <5% fuel contamination in 25K. <sigh>

I love air-cooled engines but they can't pull numbers like that. The high-temperature and shear numbers for synthetic are why I tried it and some nice blends but oil gets fuel contaminated so fast it's a waste of money for anything refined more than one or two steps up from melted candles. Columbo sure did love that Redline oil out in the desert when we did the Durango rally though. Redline's supposed to be chock full of moly but it didn't bother the clutch at all.

No, the zinc shouldn't drop much unless it was an initial fill on a new engine or after some serious work. It's like priming a chalkboard with chalk for the first time or after washing it, the metal holds on to some of the zinc, and moly for moly oil.

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[Bonz]

Fuel was less than .5%, want to make sure you noticed the decimal. That was with the stock Keihin 36mm carbs and also with the Keihin CVK40mm carbs from a ZZR1200 on the bike now.

Any reason the Mikuni XS carbs would give more contamination? I wouldn't expect the fuel contamination to be much different on the XS unless carbs are in poor shape, like a few threads as of late.

Like I said, the only number that was better on the syn oils was flashpoint 25 deg higher on avg. Syn and Dino both sheared down about the same amount relative to where they started. M1 15w50 went to a low 40 wt, and both 15w40 Dino oils and 5w40 Rotella syn were mid 30 wt range. All these samples had between 4000-5000 miles on them in the liquid cooled , but substantially higher output, ZRX1200.

[3Phase]

0.5%! 0.5%! Aaiieeeii!

Nah, it's not the carburetors that wreck the oil, it's blow-by and air-cooled engines do a lot of it. My Corvair would turn the oil black in no time too so I switched to Arco Graphite and didn't care any more because it's already black right out of the can.

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[motoman]

0.5%! 0.5%! Aaiieeeii!

Nah, it's not the carburetors that wreck the oil, it's blow-by and air-cooled engines do a lot of it. My Corvair would turn the oil black in no time too so I switched to Arco Graphite and didn't care any more because it's already black right out of the can.

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Had a car like that once.......kept adding STP till things got so slick that it would keep trying to run after the key was turned off.

[Bonz]

We used ARCO graphite growing up (10w-40) and had issues on two cars with a stuck lifter ('80 GM 2.5L) and sticky rings ('83 T-bird Turbo 2.3l). Didn't use it after that. May have been the 10w-40 with the high amount of viscosity improvers vs anything specific to the graphite formulation. Yep, black as heck from the start, black stains never come out of anything it touched. Is the oil still made?

[ViperRon]

Synthetic oil is absolutely the best oil for the gearing bearings and mechanical parts of the engine. It is far superior for protection and wear characteristics.

But Synthetic oil any brand will in a short time fubar your standard cork fiber clutch plates. The results may take time to be seen but the synthetic oil will penetrate the material in the wet clutch cork fiber disks and they will loose grip. You will find it near impossible to clean this off enough to regain proper grip again. Some clutches are better than others and under normal operation you may not see a difference but you punch the bike hard for a little while, or load it heavy, and the clutch will slip.

[Bonz]

that's wives tales and urban myths about the clutch issues, period.

very few oils are actually true synthetic oils, and are not part of the major discussions on this forum. Do some research on the internet read about modern synthetic oils and how they are made and you will see that.

The reality of the situation, instead of the long standing myth, is oil analysis shows wear metals from all parts of an engine. Synthetic oil shows no better or worse wear numbers over the same length oil change interval as dino oil.

it's not to say in the nastiest and most severe situation a synthetic oil won't give a margin of protection, however it does no damage to clutch or gaskets.