Synthetic Oil drip

[motoman]

Does anyone remember Kendall the "Green Oil", back in the Seventies that's what you used in your muscle car.

Brad Penn is Kendall.

I've a friend who drag races air cooled VWs and his weekly tear downs show no to micro wear on the mains, rods or crank.

Since He's a dealer I've been using Brad Penn, in various blends, in all my vehicles with improved performance via increased fuel milage, for the last 8 years. I also use the gear lube.

http://www.penngrade1.com/Default.aspx

They stock a 20w50 in the high performance motorcycle oil also.

Very true Schming! A couple decades ago, had drove bro-inlaws 72 Vette here from Houston,TX and pulled heads,ect. for a valve job and bronze guide installation. At 180K and was tottally amazed at cyls. still having a cross-hatch pattern and absolutely no metal pushed up as a 'ridge'. The machinest at the time concured that Kendall oil was the BEST lubricating/protecting oil out there...bar none.
Unfortunately, being a southern/southeastern product, not available in these parts.

[motoman]

Interesting. I always enjoy reading about different oils. My buddy has a hookup on Amsoil that I'm thinking about. Can't recall if I have Valvoline or Wally world oil in it right now.

Amsoil is a decent product, but alot of their claims have some 'snake-oil' attached.........Besides, with these loosely built air-cooled motors that have more 'blow-by' into crankcase creating contamination of oil that HAS to be changed as regularly as dino-oil.........a total waste of money that could be better well spent on fuel and bike improvements.

[3Phase]

Beyond CJ-4: Introducing PC-11, the New HDDEO Performance Category

Acting on a request by the Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA), the American Petroleum Institute (API) and Diesel Engine Oil Advisory Panel (DEOAP) are proceeding with the development of a new heavy duty diesel engine oil performance category: PC-11. PC-11—the PC stands for proposed category—offers performance features beyond the current API CJ-4 engine oils. The formal written request, dated June 21, 2011, proposes first licensing by API no later than January 1, 2016.

more...

[donebysunday]

Ian any chance you could share what your bike did not like about the 15-40 ??? Oh and which oil it was too ?

Years ago I tried Rotella T 15-40 in an XS650 and it blew it out, went back to Yama lube, no problem. Years later fixing up another put in Chevron no problem, then tried WW 15-40, no problem. Now I'm trying WW again just for fun, will see ?

I don't mind stirring the pot, lol. My bike did not like the 15w-40, even-after changing the springs out. 20w-50 year-long from now-on.

[IanDMacDonald]

Yes sir, I don't mind. It was my XS11. I have a close friend who literally has done it all when it comes to working on things using fuel. Tractors to jets in the US Air Force, NASA, to huge diesel ships, to tug boats, to diesel trucks as a diesel fleet mechanic for Muffler Man's headquarters here in Michigan. And, he said every job he ever worked on, Shell Rotella was the oil used. Sounded pretty convincing to me. Did my own research on it. Shell Rotella T, T3; T5, T6: all good oil. Triedit in my bike, and did not notice much difference. Highway on-ramp going WOT throttle shifting- that's where the thin viscosity beared it's ugly head. Clutch was slipping. Changed the springs out, cleaned the plates. Changed the oil, same issue. Changed to Valvoline 20w50, never had a problem since. Plus, the bike leaks less with the thicker oil, and I feel it burns less. I still look at the sight glass daily, but I lost two engines in my 750 using 15W-40 from it burning so quick and not checking it daily (no sight glass in early '78).

[Bonz]

I ran the Delo 400 LE 15w-40 in my ZRX1200 last year, and upon analysis after use, contained 1232 ppm zinc and 1016 ppm phosphorus. Wear numbers were excellent. I ran an oil change interval in the XS with that oil as well, but no analysis, wouldn't hesitate to use it again regardless.

The main issue isn't how much of what is in there, but how does it protect? Wear analysis doesn't lie. There are other anti-wear additives in oils now (that don't harm catalytic converters, not for us to worry about though.... ) that make up for lower Z and P. As well, base stocks are pretty darn good these days so to use "absolute" numbers of zinc and phosphorus as the only determinant is not using all the information available.

I have plain ol' Rotella 15w-40 in the XS now, will do an analysis at the end of the oil change interval which may be in a year, and report the results.

With a relatively low 8500 rpm redline and such a beefy motor from top to bottom, I have honestly never heard of any oil related engine damage to the valve train or other parts because of more modern oils and their contents (lower Z and P).

[3Phase]

I didn't say they got rid of the zinc and it would destroy your engine with a single fill, I said "You have to pay attention to the labels for the new diesel oils, they've started cutting back on the ZDDP just like the automotive oils."

Edit: Water-cooled engines are not as hard on the oil as air-cooled engines /edit 'cause I have a memory like Dory

In those two examples,
Delo 400 multi has (had?) >1400 ppm Zn
Delo 400 LE multi has < ~1200 ppm Zn

Now Delo 400 LE isn't exactly new any more but it's just one example of a diesel oil with the same trade name on the bottle as its predecessor but with reduced zinc. The actual new PC11 formulas -- with whatever non-experimental designations they hang on them -- are supposed to be licensed in January of next year. I don't know when the equivalent ILSAC GF6 for cars and light trucks is going to arrive but:
"Uh, pardon me, there's just one more thing...."


ILSAC GF-6 and PC-11 updates - 04 December 2014

Steve Haffner, Infineum Crankcase Market Manager, gives an update on some of the North American lubricant specification developments.
more ...


Pay attention to the labels for the new diesel oils, they've started cutting back on the ZDDP just like the automotive oils.

.

[je2wheeler]

Castrol 4T 20W-50

Been using Castrol 4T 20W-50 M/C oil since the early '70s for all my bikes. Before that, I honestly do not remember what I was using - but - what ever it was would cavitate the oil pump in my CB750 @ 5K RPM and the oil light would come on. Switched to 4T and problem salved. No scientific data, no commercial hype, just no oil light was good enough for me.
I have heard good and bad about the 4T, for my own experience I will use nothing else.
I had a '71 Honda AN600 Sedan. Air cooled 600cc motorcycle engine with a 4 speed transaxle. My wife loved that little car. She could find parking where other drivers had to pass up.
To get on the California Freeways, we would wind that little engine to the max to get up to merging 75 mph traffic. That was before the national 55.
Every 50k miles, on the advice of a Honda mechanic, I would replace the oil pump, a piston pump that cost 7 bucks and was easily done.
In '92, we retired "Baby Car" with 250k miles. I attribute this to good maintaince and 4T 20W-50 oil.

[BowlingSS]

I started using O'Relly's brand 20W50. It is on sale right now.

Bill

[CaptonZap]

The machinest at the time concured that Kendall oil was the BEST lubricating/protecting oil out there...bar none.
Unfortunately, being a southern/southeastern product, not available in these parts.

http://http://www.phillips66lubrican...uct=View%20All

Looks like Kendall is under the Phillips 66 brand now. Years ago, the distributor in Denver told me that Kendall was the last refiner to be using Pennsylvania crude as base stock.
Pennzoil started with that crude, but ran out and went to Texas crude.
?????

[IanDMacDonald]

I started using O'Relly's brand 20W50. It is on sale right now.

Bill

Pretty sure O'Reilly's brand is produced by the same blender as Walmart (Super-Tech), which is what I use when I cannot find 20w50 in Valvoline. No issues with it. Greg likes it too!

[Volant1006]

[QUOTE=Bonz;465767]Hey, ya'll should show a little love here... It isn't the synthetic oil, the drain plug didn't have a washer! Geez.

Well after draining the synthetic oil I did notice there was a washer on the bolt, it was just very thing and didn't see it the first time. I replaced the washer and filled the bike back up with some Walmart conventional 20w50. It was like $2.44 a quart. All seems to be well now. Thanks for all the feedback.

[Schming]

http://http://www.phillips66lubrican...uct=View%20All

Looks like Kendall is under the Phillips 66 brand now. Years ago, the distributor in Denver told me that Kendall was the last refiner to be using Pennsylvania crude as base stock.
Pennzoil started with that crude, but ran out and went to Texas crude.
?????

From Brad Penns site:

"In 1997, American Refining Group, Inc. (ARG), a privately held energy company headquartered in Philadelphia, PA, purchased the Kendall/Amalie refinery located in Bradford, PA, from Witco Corporation. As a result of the sale by Witco, of the Kendall® and Amalie® brands to a third party, a new name was given to the products produced at the site: Brad Penn® Premium Pennsylvania Grade Lubricants. Founded in 1881 at the height of the domestic oil boom, the Bradford refinery is the only refinery processing 100% Pennsylvania Grade crude oil. It is also the oldest continuously operated lube oil refinery in the world. Due to the consistency of our feedstocks, the quality of our products can be traced from the wellhead to the finished packaged product. ARG's refinery and blending and packaging operations are ISO 9001:2000 certified. The Bradford refinery was the first in the United States to carry the ISO 9002 certification."

A little read on ZDDP:

http://www.penngrade1.com/CMSFiles/F..._BRAD_PENN.pdf

[Schming]

ZDDP info...

The Brad Penn® Penn Grade 1® High Performance Oils contain the higher level of anti-wear (ZDDP – zinc dialkyldithiophosphate) and enhanced film strength so critical to proper high performance engine protection. The Penn-Grade 1® oils “typical” 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P) content provide the needed anti-wear protection to critical engine parts, such as piston/cylinder walls, roller cams under heavy valve spring pressure and especially those that employ a solid “flat tappet” type system. As important as the chemistry is to the Penn-Grade 1® oils, it is by no means the whole story. The unique base oil cut used to refine the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils maintain a tremendous affinity to metal surfaces. This naturally occurring “metal wetting” characteristic enables the oil to stay put on your highly stressed engines and makes the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oil resist slinging for an extended period of time. Also, rest assured in knowing that the Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Oils are 100% Made in the USA.


ZDDP LAB RESULTS

We have seen the question arise on a number of chat rooms and websites about the amount of Zinc and Phosphorus in our Penn Grade 1 High Performance Oils. The questions seem to have arose after a number of people individually sent samples of our products to Blackstone Lab(s) for analysis. The Blackstone report showed a lower Zinc and Phosphorus additive concentration level then our established in house specifications and laboratory results from our ISO 9001:2008 quality control lab proved.

In an effort to clarify any misconception about our product we did our own testing and sent three virgin oil samples (each from the same identical batch) to both Blackstone Lab and Southwest Research Lab for testing. All three Southwest sample results were completely in line with our internal specifications/analysis. The Blackstone zinc and phosphorus results in all three analysis were lower than our internal specifications/analysis and Southwest Research’s lab results. The results for both the Blackstone and Southwest Research analysis are listed below:

Brad Penn Product Blackstone Southwest Research

Penn Grade 1 zinc 1,214 ppm zinc 1,540 ppm
20W-50 #7119 phos 944 ppm phos 1,319 ppm

Penn Grade 1 zinc 1,424 ppm zinc 1,565 ppm
10W-30 #7150 phos 1,139 ppm phos 1,332 ppm

Brad Penn PCMO zinc 689 ppm zinc 1,051 ppm
20W-50 SJ #7123* phos 522 ppm phos 901 ppm

*In some cases we feel our PCMO SAE 20W-50 was sent in for analysis (and not the High Performance Oil SAE 20W-50) which does contain lower Zinc and Phosphorous additive concentration levels.

The difference in results between Blackstone and SRI can be explained by a difference in methodology in analyzing the samples and not differences in the formulation. Blackstone employed measurement techniques more generally employed in analyzing used oils, while SRI employed methods more usually utilized for new multigrade engine oils. The samples provided to both labs were new oils. New oils that have not been subjected to shear often require higher dilution rates in the elemental analysis measured by ICP (Inductively Coupled Plasma) as indicated in method ASTM D5185.

[CaptonZap]

Bonz, don'tcha just love oil threads?

CZ