anyone running open pipes and pods? what jets are best?

[mrhammer2u]

Hey Dave- You know how it works. Some people have good intentions in their words, it's just how they say it (which in your interpretation comes-off a little coarse). And, they may be the case. However, we have a lot of new members who come on here, STATE what they think will work, try it, fail, and come back on here asking why their bike runs like poop.

Amen

Dave,
You have offended some of the "purists" and lived to tell about it....lol! But don't be afraid, you have some "hackers" in your corner as well Thanks for rescuing her and keep on posting. I for one love to see the many ways an XS can morph.

[LoHo]

Sail, when you have her running, spray some starter aerosol around the carbs to check for a vacuum leak, which might be the backfire. You could also get some engine fogger and spray a bit into the carbs to see if you get a plume of smoke from somewhere along the exhaust to find a leak. If you still have the collector from the stock pipes, you might have some sort of build-up diverting the exhaust to one side. Just spitballin' here.

[jetmechmarty]

Also gotta say, some if you guys aren't too friendly here. I don't mind constructive criticism. But no need to get nasty. Also don't forget. I'm reconstructing a wrecked bike, building a fun bar hopper. Its not meant to be a highway rocket or touring bike. You should appreciate that I saved it from the scrap heap which is where it was headed when I got it.

Bikerdave79,
Maybe just a little coarse, but certainly not nasty. Remember, this thread is on here long term and who knows who'll read it some time in the future. There have been and will be plenty of epic fails in attempting to do what you're doing. The primary function of this forum is to preserve these bikes in a functioning state. Those stepping up, or stepping on your toes are protecting that turf. You're still getting all the help anyone has to offer and if this were a real garage, we'd all have a beer together at the end of the day. So, don't put on your armor. You aren't going to need it. Best wishes for success in this endeavor.

[crazy steve]

Also gotta say, some if you guys aren't too friendly here. I don't mind constructive criticism. But no need to get nasty.

No nastiness intended (sometime tact may be a bit lacking... LOL), but like Ian says, there's been a lot of guys who have come here looking for tuning info for open pipes and gotten upset when none was offered. That's not because we're holding out, but simply because these bikes just don't run well on the street with open pipes. What works on 'other' bikes just doesn't on these. Yamaha designed these as a 'fully developed' design; in other words, there's almost no 'potential' left on the table unless you start changing things like cams, engine displacement, compression ratio, etc, and even then the power gained will prove to be expensive. They're particularly sensitive to exhaust changes, with most resulting in power loss and sometimes major tuning issues. I've been on this site for six years, and if you can get one of these to run well with open exhaust, you'll be the first....

[bikerdave79]

Hey I take no offense and I understand the purist thing. But I paid $300 for two bikes, one having a good engine and smashed front end with title The other being a barn fresh locked up and rotten out donar. Managed to make one bike. Refresh and go over the motor. I don't have any of the plastics, seat, etc so rather than hunt down hard to find stuff and still have just a plain Jane sf. I decided to customize it. Like I said the the xs is a new animal to me but I've built plenty of Suzukis, Kawasaki's, Honda's, and xj Yamahas. So although I hear you when you say that won't run right, I'm not afraid to toy around with it and see if I CAN. The challenge is now there, so I feel I need to at least try. I may be new to message boards but I've been building bikes since I could sit on them which is going on 25 years now. You can't know unless you try! Besides I'm not afraid to bend up or weld up a custom exhaust to make it work. Store bought pipes that were designed to work with mufflers definitely won't work. I'm gonna give it a go and let you know how I make out. I will attempt to do a write up so that others can duplicate my success, if any is to be had! Lol

[motoman]

Hey I take no offense and I understand the purist thing. But I paid $300 for two bikes, one having a good engine and smashed front end with title The other being a barn fresh locked up and rotten out donar. Managed to make one bike. Refresh and go over the motor. I don't have any of the plastics, seat, etc so rather than hunt down hard to find stuff and still have just a plain Jane sf. I decided to customize it. Like I said the the xs is a new animal to me but I've built plenty of Suzukis, Kawasaki's, Honda's, and xj Yamahas. So although I hear you when you say that won't run right, I'm not afraid to toy around with it and see if I CAN. The challenge is now there, so I feel I need to at least try. I may be new to message boards but I've been building bikes since I could sit on them which is going on 25 years now. You can't know unless you try! Besides I'm not afraid to bend up or weld up a custom exhaust to make it work. Store bought pipes that were designed to work with mufflers definitely won't work. I'm gonna give it a go and let you know how I make out. I will attempt to do a write up so that others can duplicate my success, if any is to be had! Lol

In my case, has ABSOLUTLEY nuttin' to do with being a purists....not even close. But being involved in this and other realms of the motor PERFORMANCE world for TWICE that many yrs.deserves its dues also. Sorry for being a bit 'blunt', but SPECIFICLY in the XS11's case, as Steve stated, there is NOTHING left on the table as far as performace from these motors. Sure, there has been ONE who has pinched another few 'ponies' out of these motorsATW(and we 'oldies' all know who that was and where that bike NOW resides across the pond in a museum).that was also some $10K+ later, aside the expense cosmetically that was spent.
Study the historical engineering aspects of THESE motors SPECIFICLY and you'll better understand. Hints ARE: one piece forged steel cranks(KZ's were two piece pinned cast cranks). Shot-peened radiused rods. A five angle cut combustion chamber design, mimicking hemis combustion location........on and on... and on. Yamaha INTENDED to be, with NOTHING left to chance, number one on the 'big-end' of that 1320 quarter mile.
You know how it works.......".win on Sunday....sells on Monday".
I wish you luck though, trying to improve on what Japenese engineers WAY sharper than any of us here already had figured out for ya'.

[GNEPIG]

The word missing here is reversion.. Extend the head pipes back another couple of feet and add whatever diffuser/interrupter you like. A washer welded to a bolt is popular... By no means does this make the bike run awesome but it will let it rev past 5 grand, which is all the guy wants.
I made my Ironhead with drag pipes run good by inserting torque cones 3 inches from the end of the pipe, still sounded loud-ass but ran good all over. BUT the Ironhead doesn't have a CV on it either...

The other way to solve this is to replace the carbs with non CV carbs. I have run the Keihin CR's before= they really work. Mikuni flat sides work too and they make the XS11 real fast but not good for cruising/low rpm's.

I like customs, lookin' forward to seeing the outcome of yours...

[Rasputin]

Running open headers kills your exhaust scavenging which yes will effect low end performance but I've found that by installing a piece of perforated steel into the pipe affects the back pressure very little and improves the low r scavengin. It's worked on several other bikes I've built. I don't see why this one should be any different.

See now you are talking reality. The perforated pipe is a restrictor no matter how you word it and does create the much needed back pressure. If even a washer is welded in to the pipes you will get some back pressure. Open pipes have basically none at all, as you have stated.

Also gotta say, some if you guys aren't too friendly here. I don't mind constructive criticism. But no need to get nasty.

While I am not a noted member on this site for my tactfulness, I must say that I did not mean it in a nasty way. You must remember that every single thing you post goes worldwide and not just the members here see it. Basically you have posted to a bulletin board where any single person can reply if they get past joining the site.

Ian that's the idea. Bikes rely on exhaust scavenging to clear the cylinders, at low speed so running straight open pipes reduces the gas velocity and back pressure. Good for sound, and high end not for low. What I'm basically doing is welding in a very simple diffusion baffle that does really nothing to decrease the noise, and retains the drag pipe look, but increases the exhaust flow and retains some of the scavenging effect. Much like a 2 cycle expansion chamber but using a larger diameter pipe over the stock head pipes (see picture) I have the same setup on a Suzuki gs850 that I built. And with some carb mods and opening up the intake you can negate a lot of the negative effects of reduced scavenging. Does it effect the low end, yes. Enough to notice not really. The throttle is a tad lazier with the CV stack carbs but this can also be negated by trimming the return springs slightly loosening them up. The question was not the how if I can do it. But has anyone done it. If not I'll be sure to update everyone as I go

See now you have us interested in your findings! We now have gone from ... "anyone running open pipes and pods? what jets are best?" to the point we have arrived at. No one is questioning your abilities, just did not particularly care for the question and then the "It's not my first Rodeo" type of reply. We will always help someone if we can.
Oh and yes I am one of the purists mentioned but I appreciate anyone who will preserve one of these bikes. Well except for those who decide to paint it all flat black and rip out the wiring harness and ask us how to fix the Darned thing.
Good luck on your project and do keep us honestly informed of your results as inquiring minds want to know.

[sail4free]

Sail, when you have her running, spray some starter aerosol around the carbs to check for a vacuum leak, which might be the backfire. You could also get some engine fogger and spray a bit into the carbs to see if you get a plume of smoke from somewhere along the exhaust to find a leak. If you still have the collector from the stock pipes, you might have some sort of build-up diverting the exhaust to one side. Just spitballin' here.

==========
Thanks for that. I remember the starting fluid/intake boot trick and mine are OEM (if only 27,000 miles) -- wouldn't be surprised to learn they're leaking along with everything else It's a process of elimination and I'm regrettably pre-occupied building our 12x16 shed right now -- I don't know how much longer I can trust that blue tarp I can feel a LOT of air coming out under that left side and I'll be surprised if there isn't a big ol' hole under there.
==========
I did a novice reseal of my intake boots once with clear silicone . . . and then I learned regular silicone and rubber don't really stick to each other. If they leak, I'll just replace them this time and not fight it.
JIM P.
==========

[bikerdave79]

Rasputin.... I'm guilty of the flat black thing. But only if its the style I'm going for. Not as a lazy way out to covering up bad tins and tarnished aluminum. I've spent many hours on this bike meticulously polishing certain parts while blacking out others (gloss) to set up a certain look I want to achieve. Black and chrome. Or in this case, polished aluminum. I've kept as much of the original bike as possible yet repurposed it. The handlebars were cut down and redesigned, the rear fender is chopped and being hard mounted to the swingarm so it floats with the tire and there isn't a huge gap between fender and tire. I've also cut down the rear shocks from 12.5" to 11". The springs, AND shocks. The side covers (or lack there of) were deleted and I'm going to be using polished aluminum diamond plate as side covers. The brake calipers and master will be fully polished not black like factory. I'm maintaining the original engineering of the bike, original parts were I'm able and giving it a more "chopper" feel. Most guys just buy bolt on eBay stuff, hack the rear off and call it a bobber or chopper. I'm actually chopping and modifying existing parts. Its cheaper and more fun. So far the only thing aftermarket on it is the turn signals. I'm even debating not using the saddle seat and modifying the original seat pan to be a one man king. The idea of the pipes wasnt to say I'm just going to hack them off and hope for the best. Ive done custom exhausts before that look like drag pipes but retain some needed pressure I was looking for input on how these bikes run with chopped exhaust and intake. For now I may leave the stock air box and cut down the exhaust and see how she reacts. I'd really like to go with pods because it declutters the engine area but, Ive been toying around with the idea of making 90° velocity stacks which may give me the vacuum I need and also look cool. I play a lot of it out on paper. Some of it works some of it doesn't, but you never know unless you try right?? I'm all about the purist thing, I rock a bone stock 74 cb360 (aside from jardine megaphone pipes) but this here yermammaha bike was built from two basket cases. So it was never going to be original no matter how I sliced it. As far as the way you guys jumped on me, its all good. I'm not great with words and internet. I'm better with my hands. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers!

[IanDMacDonald]

I have three of those 360T's in my mom's garage. Fun bikes as a kid, could not imagine riding one now.

[JRealHEMC]

bikerdave79


I just started my XS project, and I cut off part of my tail section last weekend like how yours is... I thought about putting lights or something right there like you did, but couldn't find anything, so decided to just fill in the holes with quick steel, smooth it out, and paint... What did YOU do & where did you get them??

[MadHatter4119]

Since your first post on this thread 6/15...and your post today...your picture hasn't changed...is it still the same...??? Love to see some recent pictures of
this build...

PS: See if you can contact this guy...he has his running good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_BsRBnYFG8

[BA80]

Since your first post on this thread 6/15...and your post today...your picture hasn't changed...is it still the same...??? Love to see some recent pictures of
this build...

PS: See if you can contact this guy...he has his running good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_BsRBnYFG8

Sounds good on a jackstand, bet it.......wait........Iknow it rides like shi.......crap.

[MadHatter4119]

If you say so...I just came across that video while doing some research and
remembered it...really care less...I'm a believer in engines having back pressure...