2nd gear fix moveing washer

[jimg1au]

hi
firstly
how many of you fellow xsives have done the 2nd gear fix and moved the washer to the other side of the gear.is there no problem with doing this and the gear cog wont spin the circlip off.

secondly
should you put the gears back the way they came out and leave the washer where it was.

which is the best way.
thanks
jim garvey
sydney
australia
1x xs1100h
2x xs1100rh
1x it400f

[xssiveone]

Jim, Merriman Cycle has been moving the washer for years and claim to have had no problems with it taking the clip off. I didn't feel comfortable with that so I had the gear machined and used a second washer. Can't tell you how well it worked as it's still a work in progress.

[Jerry]

Answer depends a little on the gears. If you are re-working the old gears to re-use, move the washer. It increases the engagement of the 2 gears by about .040. As noted, there has been only 1 failure reported, by a racer, with the gear wearing the circlip, but even that was a guess.

If you plan to use new gears, the replacement gear 'dogs' are now undercut (tapered) a few degrees from the factory. The original gears are not. The tapering tends to pull the 2 gears closer together, which is why it is a good idea to taper the old gear if you plan to re-use it.

Cutting the gear face is more expensive and you have to find the washer from a junked XS/XJ, as it is no longer available from Yamaha as a separate part. I was lucky and had a blown motor/transmission to pull the washer from, and had the gear cut so there is now a washer on either side of the gear. Cost for the cutting was $25.00. However, this approach does offer the highest peace of mind.

So, if you are using new, tapered gears, moving the washer may not be necessary; the gears will mesh better than new. If you are using cleaned up old gears, move the washer to increase the engagement. If you want the best peace of mind, move the washer and have the gear face cut for a 2nd washer if you can find one.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jerry,

After reading what you said about the "NEW" gears being undercut, which improves engagement so the washer move isn't necessary, then shouldn't refacing the old gears AND undercutting them provide the same increased improved engagement, so again, the washer move shouldn't be needed!?!?

I have done 3 repairs on 1 XS and 2 XJ's, both 1st and 2nd gear sets, and haven't moved/added washers to any of them. Mine was done 3 years and several thousand miles ago, and it's still going/holding strong. Haven't heard of any problems from the other 2 XJ owners, one is DEO in Northern Va.!

I vote for undercutting the gears and leave the washer wear it's at!
T.C.

[Jerry]

Yes, I would think that if you udercut the dogs on the od gears then the washer need not be moved.

My problem is that I know the new tapers will be uniform, but not convinced my hand-cut ones will be! So I would opt for the washer move to increase the engagement of the 2 gears, knowing there is a *slight* chance it could lead to circlip failure.

Of course, if you have the money, replace the 2nd-5th gears with new one *and* cut the new gear face *and* add the 2nd washer.....you get the double advantage of greater engagement with the taper and closer gear meshing, with protection for the circlip provided by the 2nd washer.

[beechfront]

i replaced 2/5 gears last spring - though it wasn't absolutely necessary. i was just doing it more for peace of mind.

anyway - after looking things over i decided NOT to move the washer. i looked into cutting the new gear & adding a 2nd washer - but i gave up trying to find one (washer). even though there really is not force pushing against the clip - i did not feel comfortable at all having that gear spinning up next to it.

also - i looked & could not really tell that the new gears were undercut. unless it is such a slight angle that i could not tell.


so i agree with jerry. if you have the resources to add the 2nd washer that's the way to go. if not, leave the washer where it is.

[jimg1au]

one of each

hi
my xs1100h i machined the second gear and put in 2 washers in.the other gears were also undercut(by glenn) it feels so much better.i can rev it in second gear now.

my 2nd xs1100rh i under cut the gears and moved the washer only.havent riden it yet as i lost spark.its not the power pack a si ran my h with the rh power pack.

so now i have 1 bike with std factory gears,1 bike with uder cut gears and moved washer and 1 bike with under cut gears and machined gear with 2 washers.

have to spend a few days now cleaning up the house as my wife is back from the uk to see her mum and belfast to see her brother.

will let you all know how the 3 bikes turn out.

[Robert Hellmer]

This is all very interesting reading as I have a fresh bottom end that could easily be reworked.
Can anyone provide dimensions for the hard to find washer?
I am a machinist, I currently hold down the heat treat department at my place of employment. I’d be willing to say a piece of O1 tool steel machined to the correct dimensions (plus grind stock), hardened to 58-60Rc and finish ground, would be more than sufficient. Then it’s just a matter of how many we want. If there were an elusive washer to be tested, the Rockwell hardness could be tested just to make sure. The part could be tested with a 15-N scale tester to minimize any possible damage. If it were determined that O1 weren’t sufficient then a properly carburized, carbonitrided or nitrided piece of 8620 might suffice. I’ll have to see if I can find a washer.
I’m just saying, where I work we make these kinds of parts every day. I can work it out with the boss to keep any costs to the bare minimum (heat treat cost of $1 or less per part)

Bob

[skids]

Bob, that is one hell of an offer! :-)