Solenoid...TCI ..????

[rdmcguy]

So here's the deal..
Recently had a solenoid go bad (I think) replaced it with new ..non oem..
Worked ok for a short time then crapped out..Took a different one from other
running bike ...seemed to be ok .. it will run for a while...will start sputtering then die....some times will restart..other times not...if I cross the terminals on solenoid it will start then die other times it will continue to run ...until the problem reoccurs Could the tci be going bad or what ??Any ideas ???

[Rasputin]

Check your kill switch to see if it is functioning properly or it is possibly rusted to the point where the balls and springs are done for.

[CaptonZap]

There you go Joe, being vague again.
Which terminals on the solenoid? The big ones or the little ones? Cross which terminals on the solenoid?
The power for both the solenoid and the TCI comes from the Red/wht wire at the fuse block, goes to the right handle bar switch, (kill switch), then to the red/wt wire on the ballast resister, and then to the solenoid and to the TCI. The blue /wht wire on the solenoid goes to ground to pull the solenoid closed. You could have a loose connector in that red/wht line somewhere.
Put a volt meter on the red/wht wire at the solenoid, and see if the voltage drops when it starts to shoot craps. If that is the problem, check inside the right handle bar switch for loose connections, and all the connectors in the red/wht line between there and the solenoid.

Or, since you are not above jury rigging, put a jumper from the red/wht wire at the fuse block to the red/wht terminal on the ballast resister, the side away from the wires that go to the coils, and see if that cures the problem.
It won't tell you where the problem is, but you can get home.

CZ

[rdmcguy]

Me jury rig ??

Thanks guys...Guess I will have to check all my connections and proceed from there....CZ as Al Bundy would say The "big uns"is where I was crossing the terminals..some times continues to run sometimes not..Will let you know what I find ..

[natemoen]

Also, even if the solenoid is bad it has nothingness do with running. All that it does is provide power to the starter when you hit the start button.

So by your description it is not the solenoid at all, you just happened to have done something to it and then your other symptoms began so you blamed it as the problem. Check that right handlebar switch cluster.

[rdmcguy]

I figured it out !!!

With the advice from you guys I disasembled the kill switch and checked misc. connections...I discovered that the red with white into updated fuse block was a bit loose.....corrected that and all seemed good until problem reoccurred.... Upon further examination...discovered ballast wires were not making a good solid connection...They are now!!!!!Problem solved Time to ride !!

[rdmcguy]

Wrong again.

I thought I had solved the problem Wrong again....runs for a couple miles....starts sputtering...dies ....will not restart without crossing large terminals on solenoid...remove jumper wire ....dies immediately...Getting very close to taking a sledgehammer to the mother%#^r could it possibly be the ignition switch or TCI ??

[DiverRay]

BYPASS THE KILL SWITCH!! I'm at work, so I can't look up the correct wires, but you need to jump two of the wires on the right switch to bypass the kill switch. The plastic gets bad, and the bike will not run. I know, been there, done that. A "used" switch will follow shortly, so get a new right control. MikesXS controls will work with very little work. The only thing is on the '78 is the headlight off/on switch. You don't really need it.

[jetmechmarty]

Take off the seat, the tank, the side covers, panel the fuse box is mounted to, and pull the headlight. Open every electrical connector on the bike. Clean all the contacts with contact cleaner. Get some at the auto parts store, Radio Shack, or whatever. Make sure they are clean.

Do you still have the original fuse box? Are the fuses all tight?

Did you replace the fuse box? Did you install it with flag terminals? How did you crimp them? I've been chasing lost electrons on my bike. I had wires I could pull right out of the fuse block terminals. I ponied up for a flag terminal crimper and reterminated all the wires at the fuse block. I hope to be done with it for a while.

Did you put dielectric grease in the connectors? That stuff is an insulator, not a conductor.

These are just some ideas I thought I'd throw out without looking at the wiring print.

[jetmechmarty]

Ray,

The right side switchgear is still available from Yamaha for the 1980 model. Will it work on the earlier bike without a lot of extra work? Mike's XS has one with a headlight switch.

3H3-83975-01-98

[BA80]

I had wires I could pull right out of the fuse block terminals. I ponied up for a flag terminal crimper and reterminated all the wires at the fuse block. I hope to be done with it for a while.

Was that the issue at XSSE last fall?

[natemoen]

Did you put dielectric grease in the connectors? That stuff is an insulator, not a conductor.

You say this as though it is a bad idea to use dielectric grease. If that is the case you are wrong!

You are correct that dielectric grease is an insulator but a proper conception is not effected by it since it is a friction fit and wipes off the grease on the connection area.

If dielectric grease is enough to make your connectors not work then you need to redo your connectors!

[jetmechmarty]

Was that the issue at XSSE last fall?

No. It became another issue while we were troubleshooting. I went to jiggle the ignition wire and it came out. I won't be having that issue anymore.

[jetmechmarty]

You say this as though it is a bad idea to use dielectric grease. If that is the case you are wrong!

You are correct that dielectric grease is an insulator but a proper conception is not effected by it since it is a friction fit and wipes off the grease on the connection area.

If dielectric grease is enough to make your connectors not work then you need to redo your connectors!

Nate,
I agree there is controversy over problems using dielectric grease. For me, not controversy if it's not in my connectors. I'm not using it, and I'm not going to.

As written by Wayne Orwig, MGNOC Georgia State Rep.

Using Dielectric Grease on connectors.

A lot of people use dielectric grease on connectors. Some people mistakenly believe that dieletric grease is a conductor. In fact, it is just the opposite; it is an insulator. Dielectric grease is typically made of silicone grease.

As an insulator, dielectric grease is good for use on spark plug boots. This was one of the original applications on vehicles when the high-energy ignition systems came out. It can help insulate the connector and, in particular on a motorcycle where it can get wet, it waterproofs the spark plug boot. And, because it is silicone, it is fairly stable at high temperatures and won't affect the rubber and plastics.

So why would you put an insulator on a connector? The idea is that you use a thin layer. When you push the connector together the grease is pushed out of the way enough to get a connection and the surrounding grease then keeps out water and oxygen. The connector will be protected from the environment and less likely to corrode. Plus, the silicone is safe for the plastics and PVC insulation.

That sounds good, so far; so why not smear it on everything? Well there are a number of good reasons.

First, silicone grease outgases constantly. If the silicone gas gets near a connector or a contact, such as a relay, and there is a spark, the spark at the contact can create silicon dioxide. Some people even suggest that the silicone gas from dielectric grease can travel many feet through the unsulation on a wire and damage a contact on the other end. Omron states that even their sealed switches can be damaged by nearby silicone grease outgassing. Reference the following links for more info:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2vw.pdf

Lubricating electrical switches | Archive content from Machine Design

Second, it is an insulator. It can prevent contacts from touching. If you do use it, use a very thin layer.

Third, if you have a corroded connection, silicone grease will not help. In fact, it may make it worse. It can never improve anything. Dielectric grease will never make a poor connection better.

Fourth, it attracts dust and dirt and it hardens over time. This means that if you smear a lot of silicone grease on connectors you may see nearby relays, switches, or points fail later on. Since silicone grease does nothing at all to improve the connection and, in fact, may insulate the contacts in the connector increasing the resistance the connector may still fail.

So what do you do? Look for a contact enhancer/lube. While most contact cleaners are simple solvents that just wash the connector off there are contact enhancers that deoxidize the contact surface and actually work to lower the contact resistance (make a better connection). Most contact enhancers leave a lubricant behind that protects the metal and continue to deoxidize the metal and improve the connection. They can work to lower the resistance and make a better contact as time goes by. The best you can hope for from dielectric grease is that it seals it enough to not get worse. I have used Caig Deoxit on my bikes for a few years now. I first found out about this on my job when I had to correct an issue in a connector system that could not tolerate even 5 thousandths of an ohm of resistance drift. We had a connector in the field that had been improperly plated and was starting to drift, mostly in warm humid areas like Florida. Our testing showed that the Caig Deoxit could be a good long-term fix. We ended up using the Deoxit to stabilize the bad units until we could get corrected wiring harnesses built with the correct connectors. We also put a layer of Deoxit on the new parts to protect and keep them clean over their lifetime. This solved the drift issue that we had.

I still use a small amount of silicone grease on my spark plug caps. It helps to waterproof them and makes it easier to pull the cap off, but I use it in very small amounts and never near a relay or switch.

[bikerphil]

I thought I had solved the problem Wrong again....runs for a couple miles....starts sputtering...dies ....will not restart without crossing large terminals on solenoid...remove jumper wire ....dies immediately...Getting very close to taking a sledgehammer to the mother%#^r could it possibly be the ignition switch or TCI ??

Check the kill/start switch connector under the tank, the pins in that type connector stretch out and will reduce the voltage to the TCI/solenoid and could cause your issue. I just went thru this with my 79F a couple weeks ago. I eliminated that lousy connector with butt splice connectors, runs nice and strong/dependable now. GL