XS1100H Build Stage III

[Outlaw4shrt]

So a few years have gone by since the last time i posted about my bike. I'm currently deployed in Afghanistan and been saving up a good bit of tax free money and getting ready to start stage III for my bike when I get home. For a little recap.

Stage I was the frame and suspension:
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ighlight=build
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ighlight=build

Stage II was the motor:
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ighlight=build

So I'm calling the next phase of the bike stage III. I honestly didn't put very many miles on the bike at stage II with everything I had going on with work for the last few years, however, a few things really did stand out that I want to correct.

a. Turn in on the bike is fine, but at agressive/full lean it takes a lot of inside bar pressure to the hold the bike down mid corner.
b. I don't ride at night very often, but i may in the future if I decide to commute to work in the morning with the bike. Having said that, the stock headlight is terrible. Honestly, all the lights are just bad.
c. I really want to be able to kick start the bike (yep, purely for show).
d. I need to do the second gear (and first gear) fix.
e. It needs some love cosmetically. I'm still undecided if I want to go with the cafe racer look or just build what I want to build. I'm leaning towards building what I want to build with LED light bars as headlights, hangaurds, a back rest for the wife, etc., but we'll see. Either way the bike is being stripped down, all the unnecessary stuff cut-off/removed, and the frame and some other bits powder coated.

so the reason for opening up a new thread is that I do have a couple of questions:

1. Has anyone ever tried to shorten the frame? There's at least a two inch, possibly a three inch gap between where the motor ends and the swingarm. It appears that this gap may be there as a requirement of the original shaft drive, but I gave that up a long time ago and am never going back, and shortening the wheel base by 2 or 3 inches would help the steering a lot I think. Currently, the bike is 67" inchs long, as long as a honda goldwing, and I'd like to shorten that by at least 5". The swingarm on the bike now is one from a FZ1 so I decided to try a more appropriate swingarm from a XJR1300. Just from eye balling it, it appears to be at least 3" inches shorter than the stock FZ1 swingarm. I have not fitted it to the bike yet (ordered it while I was over here) but i think with the shorter swingarm and possible some modification to the frame, I can get the wheelbase down to 62" or lower (most modern sportbikes are around 58").


2. So I need to do the second gear fix, probably while I have the motor out of the frame for powdercoating. Could I do a kick starter install at the same or would I absolutely have to split the cases (I've read both yes and no on this forum)? Is there a write-up anywhere for engine dissassembly if that is the case? To split the cases, can i just take the bottome case off or does the motor have to be completely dissassembled? I'm thinking about installing a set of stage II web cams as well so I could just take it to a builder, but I think I would get a lot more satisfaction out of attempting it myself.

Thanks in advance.

- Adrian

[Outlaw4shrt]

so I just had another idea for shortening the frame that I wouldn't mind your feedback on as well. What if I took the circular swingarm mounting circles(?) from another junk frame, cut them out, and just welded them in front of the stock ones? I could weld steel plates straight up and down above and below to add support and cover up the dead space in the frame. Might serve to stiffen the frame (although it would add some weight) a little too and allow me to go between the two lengths if I ever felt the need. It would also allow me to lower the mounting point of the swingarm just a hair as well so that the chain would clear without riding the chain slider on the swingarm all the time. It might also look neat with two chrome circular covers there, or it would at least be different. At the end of the day, it would allow me to add to the frame and not modify/takeawy from it considering it's already over 30+ years old and not very stiff to begin with, and it would probably end up being a lot cheaper, easier, and safer to have done and reduce errors in the geometry of the bike.

does that make sense?

EDIT: lowering the mounting point of the swing arm point in the frame, shortening the swingarm, but keeping the same shock length would in effect raise the rear ride height of the bike as well, no? This could further increase the steering head angle and help with turn in, although by that point it may be time for a steering damper.

[Outlaw4shrt]

might look something like this when it's all finished:


might make getting the motor in and out exponentially more difficult though...

[cajun31]

No comment

on the bike build. Just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your service to this country.

[bikerphil]

Could I do a kick starter install at the same or would I absolutely have to split the cases (I've read both yes and no on this forum)? Is there a write-up anywhere for engine dissassembly

If your motor is an 81, you'll have to remove the lower case to install one of the kick start gears, there is a good engine dissasembly writeup in the service manuals, you can download them for free here...

http://www.ringler.us/family/mybike.html

[Outlaw4shrt]

on the bike build. Just wanted to take a moment to thank you for your service to this country.

Jim, thanks. I really appreciate it. This is deployment number 3 for me and each one has become progressively harder (more family that I leave behind).

[Outlaw4shrt]

If your motor is an 81, you'll have to remove the lower case to install one of the kick start gears, there is a good engine dissasembly writeup in the service manuals, you can download them for free here...

http://www.ringler.us/family/mybike.html

yes, it's an 81. I appreciate the link. I think I'll try to find a spare motor to tear into and essentially practice taking it apart/putting it together before I break into the motor I've already invested some money in. I have some more research to do for sure. I'd like to try and adapt the '78 timing advance to this motor as well. I would say I am mechanically inclined, but I have very little experience actually getting into and working with the motor. I'm excited to learn though.

[Mathh]

so I just had another idea for shortening the frame that I wouldn't mind your feedback on as well. What if I took the circular swingarm mounting circles(?) from another junk frame, cut them out, and just welded them in front of the stock ones? I could weld steel plates straight up and down above and below to add support and cover up the dead space in the frame. Might serve to stiffen the frame (although it would add some weight) a little too and allow me to go between the two lengths if I ever felt the need. It would also allow me to lower the mounting point of the swingarm just a hair as well so that the chain would clear without riding the chain slider on the swingarm all the time. It might also look neat with two chrome circular covers there, or it would at least be different. At the end of the day, it would allow me to add to the frame and not modify/takeawy from it considering it's already over 30+ years old and not very stiff to begin with, and it would probably end up being a lot cheaper, easier, and safer to have done and reduce errors in the geometry of the bike.

does that make sense?

It does make sense as it has been done by several racers. It also helps clearing the swingarm so the chain does not grind it down. Here is a pic of one, only the change done is barely visible.



But there are more pics on the web, just do a search. Also more racer pics on the XS1100.com forum.

Seem to have missed this build all these years. looks great, my kind of build!

edit; found some more pics, pls scroll down : click

[Outlaw4shrt]

It does make sense as it has been done by several racers. It also helps clearing the swingarm so the chain does not grind it down. Here is a pic of one, only the change done is barely visible.

But there are more pics on the web, just do a search. Also more racer pics on the XS1100.com forum.

Seem to have missed this build all these years. looks great, my kind of build!

edit; found some more pics, pls scroll down : click

WOW! Thanks for pointing that out. I have looked at that bike probably 100 times and never noticed that it had plates bolted on to mount the swingarm farther forward. I think that's a brilliant idea! looks like you can build plates to mount between the rear motor mount on the lower frame rail and then behind the frame of the original swingarm mounting points and you could bolt the plate at each point. You could then put the new swingarm mounting points wherever was best on the plate, and if you ever needed to pull out the motor, the mounts are removable, NICE!

There are some other good ideas in that thread you posted. I wish I had thought of mounting a chain roller on the bottom hole of the passenger footpeg mount. That would have saved me having to notch the frame to allow the chain to clear. Oh well, if I can make this set-up work, I can go back and repair that.

Thanks for your reply, this helps me tremendously.

[Mathh]

Adrian, do you have some pics of the finished cylinder head? Always love shiny parts...

[Outlaw4shrt]

Adrian, do you have some pics of the finished cylinder head? Always love shiny parts...

Not exactly, I don't think I had the guy who did the work do anything to the combustion chambers, but if you look at the two pics below you can kind of see the port matching and polishing he did to the intake and exhaust runners.





So in my free time here, I've decided I am going to try and prep gunslinger to race her/be my weekend back road bomber. I just bought an 81 midnight special (below) that I plan on restoring with an 80 SG as a parts bike so I think I am going to give it go with racing Gunslinger as I have most of what I need invested in her already to race (motor work, suspension, brakes, decent wheels).



I used to race with WERA about 5 years ago and I did a bit of research, and I think this bike can compete nicely in the Vintage 5 class. I definitely want to build supports to move the swingarm forward and down, I'll run velocity stacks with filters from PJ Motorsports (like below), I'll need a catch can, custom belly pan, custom rear sets, more weight reduction, and safety wire her and I'd be done. AND A GOOD TUNE!



I think I'll leave the motor as is, I didn't increase the compression, just put in '78 cams with port and valve job and big bore kit, so it should make for a nice reliable race motor. I'm still running the 81 timing and vacuum advance though. I've read here that the '78 mechanical timing and vacuum advance is the way to go. Anyone know how difficult it is to change over? What specifically do I need to make the swap? Would it just be easier to have a professional alter the '81 timing plate to advance the initial timing?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Adrian,

Here are a couple of photos, the first the early model timing plate, the second the 81 plate from my bike.





The only difference I can see around the edges is that the adjusting slots were filled in when manufactured....you can actually see the outline of the slot in it. So....when you say professional, I guess you could mean just a machinist to put the plate on a MILL and just have him ream out the slots, and then you can rotate it and adjust the initial timing to your desire. This is something that I have thought about doing, I have a small simple 3-1 mill/lathe/drill HF machine and a rotary table, so when I finally have to pull the parts off to perform my crank bearing seal repairs, I can do the timing plate slots at the same time.

You might be able to do it with a DRILL, and perhaps a dremel tool, or file, just something to ream out the slot enough to allow it to slide with the securing screw/bolt in position.

T.C.

[Outlaw4shrt]

Just a quick update, I'll add more later.

I got back from Afghanistan a few weeks ago and have been working on the bike a lot.

- The custom swingarm plates are in progress and almost finished.
- ordered an XJR 1300 swingarm and got it to fit, still working out the kinks.
- also order an XJR 1300 oil cooler.

Just getting started with this and plan on spending a few months on it. It's probably not very obvious in the pictures, but the new swingarm and mounting location shortened the wheelbase by 5 inches down from 67 to 62. For reference, the stock XS11 wheelbase is 58 inches, and the XJR1300's is 59, so still pretty long, but much more respectable. Here are some pictures of how things are shaping up.

[Mathh]

Great to see you back! Looks good! What seat is that?

[Outlaw4shrt]

Great to see you back! Looks good! What seat is that?

Thanks! It's great to be back.

I'm not sure what kind of seat it is. It's definitely period, and I think it's custom. It's definitely not OEM and there are no labels or manufacturers markings on it. I got it for $75 on ebay and I think it matches the lines of the tank really well.