Ryan's 1979 XS1100SF Build

[donebysunday]

Stick a straw in the oil filler down into the oil, cap the end with your finger so you can extract a little bit of oil. Smell the oil, if you get a gas smell, time to do some fixin and then oil change before trying to start again. If no smell of fuel in the oil it's most likely not the carbs but lines and connections, replace to stop leakage. Every garage should have a fire extinguisher that will put out gas/oil fires, keep it handy. Try starting again, check for kinks in lines, it's easy to kink the line/s when dropping the tank back down.

[Sparkin79]

Thanks @donebysunday - fire extinguisher ready.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Sparkin,

I reread your thread, because what you said about the headlight dimming after repeated starting attempts caught my eye. Then I saw that the PO had bypassed the headlight relay so that it's on when you turn the key on. You've recharged the battery, but how OLD is the battery? I know you've started the bike and that it's run before, before the washing, but you've also ran it down quite a bit with the repeated starting attempts. And then with the headlight being on...that drops another 4+ amps from the battery. Do you have a voltmeter that you could put across the battery to monitor while trying the starting attempts? IF the voltage drops near 10.5V the TCI usually won't work, no start. Have you tried using a jumper battery along with the bike's battery?

Other things to check are the ignition/pickup coil wires down around the crankcase/timing cover....and the connectors there, when wet, can short across....folks have reported problems starting after washing due to problems with the connectors or harness down in that area getting wet.

Also, water on the plug wires can cause shorting to the engine/frame if they are touching it anywhere. Also, water in the spark plug coil primary wires/connectors can also short.

T.C.

[donebysunday]

Hey Sparkin,

I reread your thread, because what you said about the headlight dimming after repeated starting attempts caught my eye. Then I saw that the PO had bypassed the headlight relay so that it's on when you turn the key on. You've recharged the battery, but how OLD is the battery? I know you've started the bike and that it's run before, before the washing, but you've also ran it down quite a bit with the repeated starting attempts. And then with the headlight being on...that drops another 4+ amps from the battery. Do you have a voltmeter that you could put across the battery to monitor while trying the starting attempts? IF the voltage drops near 10.5V the TCI usually won't work, no start. Have you tried using a jumper battery along with the bike's battery?

Other things to check are the ignition/pickup coil wires down around the crankcase/timing cover....and the connectors there, when wet, can short across....folks have reported problems starting after washing due to problems with the connectors or harness down in that area getting wet.

Also, water on the plug wires can cause shorting to the engine/frame if they are touching it anywhere. Also, water in the spark plug coil primary wires/connectors can also short.

T.C.

+1 may I add using WD-40 to get rid of some water, after all it's WD-40, that came from being a Water Displacing fluid and it took 40 tries to get it done.

[Prisoner6]

Pick-up coil wires

Hi, Ryan -

Have a look at this:

Pick-up Coil Wire Repair

And, after you've read that, if you prefer to do a "naked butt connector and crimp" method of repair on your pick-up coil wires (instead of soldering) ...

Watch this excellent video that details how to do it:

How to splice and repair wires, splicing techniques

This is all assuming, of course, that 1 or more of your pick-up coil wires need repairing ... but they most likely will need repairing.

[Sparkin79]

Hey guys I just wanted to say first off thanks again - I really appreciate any input and I make sure to take each one into account - you guys are seriously awesome with how you help people.

So to answer some of the questions in the recent posts and then an update on the fuel line/petcock problem here we go:

@TC - Battery, yeah, I've got that on my list as well. So PO put a new one in at the start of this year. However he mentioned that the one before this seemed to die out rather quickly (like within a year or two) which makes me believe I'm definitely losing power or it's not charging back up correctly. I'm hoping that when I go through and clean up all the electrical points that I may find something or accidentally fix it. I have a multimeter which does measure DCV (is a voltmeter different...yeah rookie question) and have seen some videos of people testing the battery with the multimeter. That is definitely on my list of things to do as well as do some pro and cons investigation into reinstalling a relay (I don't like the fact that I'm drawing power away when I don't want to).

@TC and Marco - ignition coils - yep that one was on the top of my list from the beginning. If you recall the PO was stating he was bogging down at speeds above 40 (losing acceleration) and when he took it to a mechanic they did something to the ignition coil and it worked fine afterward...until about a month ago when he decided to sell the bike. So my first instinct was to retrace that coil problem by testing through the various ways you guys posted and others have posted on the forums. I've already stocked up on new spark plugs as well just in case. Again this is on my list (which is growing - but I'm loving it) of things to do.

@donebysunday - so just spray some WD40 around the outside of the spark plug holes or anywhere I see water?

As for the starting problems that's going to be on hold for a little bit until I get the fuel line problem taken care of so I'm just focusing on that at the moment. I went and bought some fuel line, a t-connector, and luckily an inline shutoff valve last night from an auto parts store - this is just temporary so I can stop the gas from leaking out. Right side petcock had one hose going from the ON spout to carb - this was leaking from a hole near the top, and a hose capped from the PRI spout - this was leaking from the cap/stopper. Removed both and found that in the off position the gas was still dripping (slowly but enough to then collect hours later under the bike) from the "ON" spout. So I hooked two new lines up into a T which then ran into a separate inline shut off valve. Cleaned as much up as I could and headed to bed. This morning noticed a small puddle still. Gas collected in the lines from the petcock and then started to slowly dip out the top of both lines at the connection to the petcock spouts. Ugh. So I routed the line into a gas can, set the sucker on reserve and drained as much gas out of that tank as possible to stop the possibility of a leak.

I actually have another tank for the bike with 2 working petcocks (the tank itself though is in sorry shape). My plan today is to take the face off the leaking petcock and any parts inside (much like the rebuild kits) and replace with the parts from my spare. Might be easier for me to just swap them completely though so I may do that instead.

Once that's done I'll refill with gas to test for leaks, then if no leaks I'll test the oil to make sure it doesn't smell like gas. If no noticeable gas leak into the oil then I'll work on the starting issue - otherwise it's oil change and then starting issue.

[donebysunday]

@donebysunday - so just spray some WD40 around the outside of the spark plug holes or anywhere I see water? QUOTE

You can spray down the entire bike with this stuff, won't even hurt the factory paint.
When I was 16 working in an auto repair shop we had a guy come in with his car missing bad. Boss says pull it in close the doors and turn off the lights ? ? ?
In the darkness with flashlights we got the car started again, little sparks all over the engine from the plug wires, plugs to distributor. Boss says turn on the lights open the doors, we did not have time to fix it right but this guy was a friend of the boss, sprayed the entire wiring harness with WD started the car and it was near 100%, bring it back in a couple days and we'll do it right.
It's temporary but will tell you a bit more about what's going on.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey again,

Okay, yes, the DCV is the VOLTMETER function of your MM. I grabbed an assortment pack of clips from Harbor Freight a while back, and used some pliers to tighten/crimp the tube section of one end of a set of alligator clips so that it would make an interference/snug fit onto the end of the MM's test lead probes so that I could CLIP them onto the circuit connections I wanted to check without having to HOLD them there freeing up my hands for other things, like operating the starter button and such! Below is just a 6 piece set for usual $0.99 actually on sale now for $0.47!



The battery is only a year old, but if it's been allowed drain too far just from sitting a while/months, then the plates could have become sulfated and so it may be getting too weak? Fully charged it should read about 12.5 volts. Then leaving the MM connected to the + and - terminals and testing the starting function and see what the voltage drops down to.

My headlight relay stopped working only because my diode line to it quite providing the proper voltage signal to throw the relay. That's also a symptom of a failing/failed charging system is when you start the bike, but the headlight doesn't come on. SO...it's possible the PO jumpered the relay to get light functionality not realizing that the relay possibly wasn't bad, but that the system wasn't charging and that was why the headlight relay wouldn't throw/latch!? SO....once you get the bike started, use that same MM/DCV and check the voltage with the engine at ~2500, the volts should be ~14.5, but if still ~12 or less, then the charging system isn't working, and you have some more detective work to do.

Swapping petcocks may work, but only if they are the same type of tank, special to special, or standard to standard. If the other tank is a standard, the petcocks won't fit your special, and there won't be the right amount of room/clearance below/behind the petcocks. And if it's a standard, the inner parts are different than the specials, so you can't use the inner parts either.
IF it is a special, you still will need to have NEW O-rings that go between the petcock and tank, the old ones will have gotten flattened and probably won't seal properly. You also need the FELT style washers that are under the heads of the screws as well, otherwise it can leak from there also!
Are you using automotive type doublewalled fuel lines?? They don't work right, and often chip off pieces of rubber from the inside. You will need to get the flexible single walled stuff from a bike shop, or Volkswagon or lawnmower Tigon line from the auto store!

Okay, keep at it!!

T.C.

[Sparkin79]

Its ALIVE!!!

Yeah Baby! Momentary success.

Took apart petcock today on the extra tank and my current one - ended up the petcock that was leaking was actually in great shape however the ring with the 5 holes (that's my technical term) was off by a little bit. So I repositioned and warped the little metal washer so it would supply more pressure, put it back together and tested and so far no leaking.

Ran new lines in the cross set-up you guys recommended and turned it on. Fired alive on the first push of the starter. Was able to take it out a bit today - didn't have any bogging down but didn't push it either - also didn't notice any gear slippage - was pretty smooth.

[Sparkin79]

It WAS alive...I swear

Alrighty - quick update.

So after great success with the gas lines (at least in my opinion) had two things planned for last week, oil change and also install my new (to me anyway) speedo. When warming up the bike for the oil change started to notice a starting problem again. It was about 50 degrees out here in Chicago at the time, had the choke full open, and would start, idle for a second at about 1000rpm then sputter out - actually sounded like it was out of gas. However after about 3 tries and then gently opening the throttle I was able to get it to stay on.

Two more things I noticed at that time - one the engine off/run switch is not working. Bike will start no matter what position it is in and the kill switch does not kill the engine. Also - heard what sounded like "Ting"....."Ting" a couple of times when it would idle then die. This went away very fast though....spark plug/mixture/gas problem?

Unfortunately the oil change didn't happen that day (was missing a 19mm socket). So last night went out to do the oil change and could not get the engine to stay running to warm it up. Same thing, a little colder now about 35 degrees, and choke full open, engine would rev real quick to 2000rpm then quickly sputter out. 90% of the time if I opened the throttle a little it would die immediately - the other 10% it would rev a little but then I would let off and it would sit at 1000rpm for a second then sputter out. Also heard what sounded like a cap from a cap gun once or twice when opening the throttle coming from the exhaust (not as loud as a back fire...more like one of those "snaps" you get around 4th of July - the little white balls that make a little bang when you throw them at the ground). However - those little spurts of the engine did warm it up a bit and managed to change the oil.

I had read a few threads about the oil level window and I was honestly stumped. I kept looking at mine and the whole thing just looked dark dark brown - could not see a line anywhere inside. Then I realized as the oil started gushing out that the PO or someone had filled that thing to the brim! So, replaced filter (and filter ring and filter bolt ring), loaded it up with new oil (to a level between the lines on the window while on stand - almost 4qt). Went to start it up and again same problems...back to the drawing board I guess. I'm going to go and do some of your earlier suggestions (check spark plugs, check spark plug wires, check ignition coils, check ignition coils in left engine crank case...etc.) - I'm avoiding the carb cleaning as it's intimidating me but I think I'm going to have to suck it up and just do it. I have the links to the threads and a youtube video that you guys previously posted.

The Speedo is still in progress as well. Bought an xs650 (black background 140mph) off ebay and as TC indicated in an earlier post it was just slightly different diameter. Basically the two screws in back of the Speedo that hold it to the cup were off by a few centimeters. I was able to successfully dremel the cup to fit and it's nice and snug now. When removing though I found that the speed cable had broken. When removing the speedo cable I broke the head off the screw that holds it into the speedo drive - HA! Purchased an extractor bit and was actually able to get the screw out - at least something went right. Have new screw ready to go and install (hopefully will get to it this week).

When speedo was off I noticed the illuminating lights were out, put new ones in but still would not turn on. Going to follow that line and check the connections. I'm also having the Oil/Brake light issue but considering the bike is not starting at this point again don't know if that was from the crazy amount of oil in there or if it's the unit in the left side cover that everyone has said to check. Oh well - lots of things on the list.

So - going to go through the ignition trouble shooting (minus carbs) first and if they all test good then I'll make my way over to the dreaded carbs. I say dreaded because my level of expertise is zilch with cars or bikes...so I'm learning a lot as I'm going...for instance this was my first time doing an oil change (other than my lawn mower), first time using a torque wrench, first time extracting a broken screw - so at least I'm learning things

I do have one additional question (yeah I realize this is a long post) - I've heard mention of the gas release vent in the tank cap...does anyone have a diagram of this - I want to make sure that's not the issue as well.

[bikerphil]

I've heard mention of the gas release vent in the tank cap...does anyone have a diagram of this - I want to make sure that's not the issue as well.

Some pics in this thread....

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35444

[Sparkin79]

Some pics in this thread....

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35444

Thank you!

[jetmechmarty]

You're going to have to deal with that kill switch. It's going to be a problem if it isn't already.

If your speedometer is smaller than the original, it didn't come from an XS650. They're the same as the XS1100 units.

[Sparkin79]

Speedo Pics

Hey Marty -

Yep - will be taking that apart this week. Hoping it's just some loose wires. I'm going off of the Ebay listing that said XS650 but I don't necessarily trust that either. Here is a pic of the speedo (unfortunately there was no part numbers on there) and my dremel work. The diameter of the unit appears the same but the screws in the back were closer together by a few centimeters and the inlet for the speedo cable was up just a little higher.

[jetmechmarty]

It looks to me like you have an XS-1 or XS-2 speedometer. It is likely much more valuable than the later unit you desire. The first XS650 bike's hit the street with the 1970 model. There was XS-1, XS-1A, XS-2, then TX650. Those bikes are becoming very collectible. I believe your speedometer belongs to one of those. You may do well to sell it.

A speedometer from a '77 through '79 XS650 will be a perfect match for your bike and read to 120 mph.