Electrical Help

[cajun31]

Hate electrical problems... I have one. I am blowing ignition 10 amp fuses. I used deoxit to clean all connections on the bike ... including spraying some in the actual ignition switch. I then went connection by connection through the bike cleaning with deoxit and applying dielectric grease. Everything seemed fine for the past couple of weeks and then I took the bike for a longer ride today and after the bike heated up going 70 and 75 mph the ignition fuse blew. Of course this immediately killed the bike and stranded me on the side of the road. I pulled the blown fuse ( yes I still have the original fuse panel ) and installed the spare I had. The bike started back up and I was able to go about another five miles before it blew again. Looking for clues here on what I need to do...check. I am no electrical guru. By the way my bike is an 80 LG. I never had electrical problems before by supposed cleaning of all the connections. Open to all suggestions and ideas. Thanks.

[MaximPhil]

Hi Cajun,
I feel your pain. The only thing worse than an Electrickery problem is an Intermittent electrical problem. As you have gone through the connections already I would start hunting for a short circuit somewhere. Pinched wire?
I suggest you change the fuse panel as it really is a worthwhile upgrade.
Phil

[bikerphil]

I would at least bypass that fuse with an in line fuse holder until you replace the entire fuse box. The metal tabs that hold the glass fuse heat up and cause a poor connection causing resistance. JMHO

[cajun31]

thanks

for the quick responses. What is puzzling to me is I had absolutely no electrical problems at all until I did the deoxit cleaning and delectric grease applications. I will be going back through each connection... this time wiping off the grease and double checking connections. I just was wondering what kind of short I could have created during this process. I find it hard to suspect that the fuse panel is the problem... not ruling it out... I may have done something to it in the dismantle reassembly process when cleaning it. It has to be something fairly obvious. When you are stranded 50 miles from home it is hard to be objective. Spent all day yesterday just getting myself and the bike home.

[crazy steve]

...I just was wondering what kind of short I could have created during this process...

Very unlikely it's a short circuit. As Phil said, much more likely it's at the fusebox, or you wouldn't have made it for any distance. Any poor connection will increase resistance, which will also increase current drawn. More current can lead to a blown fuse. Any time I mess with the electrical on one of these bikes, I check my work after. This may help... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35339

[jetmechmarty]

cajun31,

I know dielectric grease is recommended on this forum, but I do not use it, or only sparingly. There's quite a bit on the web about it and I had this conversation last weekend at the local Moto Guzzi rally.

As written by Wayne Orwig, MGNOC Georgia State Rep.

Using Dielectric Grease on connectors.

A lot of people use dielectric grease on connectors. Some people mistakenly believe that dieletric grease is a conductor. In fact, it is just the opposite; it is an insulator. Dielectric grease is typically made of silicone grease.

As an insulator, dielectric grease is good for use on spark plug boots. This was one of the original applications on vehicles when the high-energy ignition systems came out. It can help insulate the connector and, in particular on a motorcycle where it can get wet, it waterproofs the spark plug boot. And, because it is silicone, it is fairly stable at high temperatures and won't affect the rubber and plastics.

So why would you put an insulator on a connector? The idea is that you use a thin layer. When you push the connector together the grease is pushed out of the way enough to get a connection and the surrounding grease then keeps out water and oxygen. The connector will be protected from the environment and less likely to corrode. Plus, the silicone is safe for the plastics and PVC insulation.

That sounds good, so far; so why not smear it on everything? Well there are a number of good reasons.

First, silicone grease outgases constantly. If the silicone gas gets near a connector or a contact, such as a relay, and there is a spark, the spark at the contact can create silicon dioxide. Some people even suggest that the silicone gas from dielectric grease can travel many feet through the unsulation on a wire and damage a contact on the other end. Omron states that even their sealed switches can be damaged by nearby silicone grease outgassing. Reference the following links for more info:

http://www.omron.com/ecb/products/pdf/en-d2vw.pdf

Lubricating electrical switches | Archive content from Machine Design

Second, it is an insulator. It can prevent contacts from touching. If you do use it, use a very thin layer.

Third, if you have a corroded connection, silicone grease will not help. In fact, it may make it worse. It can never improve anything. Dielectric grease will never make a poor connection better.

Fourth, it attracts dust and dirt and it hardens over time. This means that if you smear a lot of silicone grease on connectors you may see nearby relays, switches, or points fail later on. Since silicone grease does nothing at all to improve the connection and, in fact, may insulate the contacts in the connector increasing the resistance the connector may still fail.

So what do you do? Look for a contact enhancer/lube. While most contact cleaners are simple solvents that just wash the connector off there are contact enhancers that deoxidize the contact surface and actually work to lower the contact resistance (make a better connection). Most contact enhancers leave a lubricant behind that protects the metal and continue to deoxidize the metal and improve the connection. They can work to lower the resistance and make a better contact as time goes by. The best you can hope for from dielectric grease is that it seals it enough to not get worse. I have used Caig Deoxit on my bikes for a few years now. I first found out about this on my job when I had to correct an issue in a connector system that could not tolerate even 5 thousandths of an ohm of resistance drift. We had a connector in the field that had been improperly plated and was starting to drift, mostly in warm humid areas like Florida. Our testing showed that the Caig Deoxit could be a good long-term fix. We ended up using the Deoxit to stabilize the bad units until we could get corrected wiring harnesses built with the correct connectors. We also put a layer of Deoxit on the new parts to protect and keep them clean over their lifetime. This solved the drift issue that we had.

I still use a small amount of silicone grease on my spark plug caps. It helps to waterproof them and makes it easier to pull the cap off, but I use it in very small amounts and never near a relay or switch.

Also, the glass fuse box is not in inherent issue. You can use a new one and it will last another 25 years. The springs holding the fuses go weak after 35 years and our fuses happen to be an odd length. Spade fuses make life easier.

[jetmechmarty]

I should add that I'm an aircraft mechanic with a background in avionics maintenance. In the Marine Corps, I was an aircraft electrician out on the big grey boat. I'm here to tell you, I NEVER put dielectric grease on and aircraft electrical connector. In fact, I have no recollection of using it at all. I concede this does not make me an authority on the subject, so do as you will with this info. As always, YMMV!

[cajun31]

Marty

I agree.... using the dielectric grease the way I have is a mistake. Yesterday I did some extensive research on the product and, although I have not cleaned anything up yet because I had to order a supply of fuses from Mikes XS, I have come to the conclusion that applying the grease in the manner I did has caused my problems. It is a non conducive insulator and although it seems to have some beneficial uses I now do not believe it should be used as anything other then a sealant such as on the spark plug caps "externally" and possibly a very small and I mean small amount on the inside of the plug boots to prevent them from sticking on the plugs themselves. I have a lot of cleanup to do when my fuses show up. Hopefully I have not damaged anything else and I will be checking things as I proceed with my multi meter as Steve suggested. I will be using the deoxit I have and 90% isopropyl alcohol to clean all of my connections inside the headlight assembly and along the wiring harness including the fuse box. I will report my findings after I do this. For now I would suggest to others ... be careful using dielectric grease.

[MaximPhil]

Hi Marty,
I can confirm that dielectric grease attracts dirt. contact cleaner washes it off. Thanks for your article and observations.
Phil

[cajun31]

Update

I was able to clean all the connectors with 91% isopropyl alcohol. Then I followed that with the Caig Deoxit spray. I had to replace the 30 amp fuse holder assembly on the left side of the bike by the battery. When I checked it the fuse was blown in half and had been in there so long (original) that I couldn't get the ends of the fuse out without damaging the assembly connectors where the fuse sat. Anyway I grabbed two off of Ebay. I cleaned the main fuse box front and back and installed new fuses acquired from Mikes XS and the bike fired right up. I just completed a 400 mile round trip on the bike and it has never ran better. I will never again use or recommend the use of dielectric grease for anything other then use as a sealant and lubricant, which be the way is what the stuff is. If you do use it do so carefully and sparingly only on non electrical areas of connectors. I would also say do not use it in a manner that would allow it to drip or flow to electrical connectors when exposed to heat.

[Gmac]

Well, ya'll just saved me from a lot of rework. My '79 Special has a starter switch/electrical contact issue I have been chasing. I have been going through the connections and hand switches disassembling, cleaning with CRC Deoxit and then spraying liberally with dielectric grease.

Fortunately I work slowly so all I have to clean the grease off of is the switch and one connector but it could have been all of them.


My thanks for the excellent article and explanations all.
This one was a true time and aggravation saver!

[cajun31]

Awesome

At least my bad experience has benefited at least one.