How Many Miles?

[trbig]

I had one crank bearing spin in the motor and ruin it and the crank, then another motor with less than 5k miles start knocking (Ruined the crank bearings) on Rotella oil. Many people have run it successfully, but it won't go in another internal combustion engine of mine.

[motoman]

Upper valve train noise was substantually greater using Rotella, so it got drained out in short order.

[MindWebs]

fried rings.

i have 3 engines here that have little to NO compression while running castrol 20w40.

The checks i've done so far point to the rings being worn out.

which is also what's wrong with the dragon.

so total of 4 engines with bad rings.

My math determines that there is an issue running castrol 20w40.

so i would recomend trying something different.

[BA80]

Funny, I ran Castrol 20/50 then switched to SuperTech (Wally World) 20/50 because it's a bit cheaper ever since I put this engine in 4 years age. Guesstamate 60,000 miles. No problems.

[MindWebs]

well.... ?

sorry, i have no idea....

i can't imagine that i beat on my bikes harder then you... ? :P

i was going off what the old guy at the yamy dealer said.

and the fact that i've got 3 motors with less then 60K on them and shot rings.

but.. i'm not an expert, i just play one in my garage

[BA80]

Have you run these engines or just checked compression sitting on the garage floor?

[MindWebs]

yes i'm still driving the seca to work (34 degree's this morning)

and i was driving the 11 when i did my rear swing arm conversion on the seca.
a few weeks ago.

xs11 0-60mph quick. (1st gets you to 50) 60-100mph maybe in 3-4miles.

seca 0-60mph ok(not great), faster...well... 80mph speedo... bummer...
so i would guess that it runs out at about 110.

The first run i had the seca on i raced gary up to 130 before he passed me slowly at 140 (his claim) i still had a 80mph speedo.
(i'm working on correcting that issue)

i used 2 different compression testers just to double check the values.
xs11- 65psi average, seca- 75psi average
then i squirted 15cc of oil into each cylinder and re-tested and it brought the
numbers up to around 120psi.

this (if memory suits) would indicate lose of compression via rings.

i'm tearing them down in the spring when money allows.
hopefully that will provide a bit more power and speed.

i ran castrol 20w40 in the yamaha's from the start of ownership, but it "seems" like the castrol didn't work for me. but then the next question should be...

is there different types of castrol 20w40?

i looked for the brand and "conventional" (non-synthetic) and weight.

was i grabbing a "wrong" jug? with wrong ratings?

not a clue... i covered the folly's of my foolishness in previous posts.

so i really am not sure what happened to my motors, but 3 on the same oil seems a bit suspicious...

[BA80]

The readings WITH oil will be closer to accurate. After all, oil IS a part of the equation when the engine is running.

I can hit 100 in way less than a mile on my 11 and it has an 850 FD.

A circle with these markings is all you need to look for on the Castrol jug ...



Or the Wally World SuperTech jug.....



But then, you need to keep oil IN the engine too.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Mindwebs,

i ran castrol 20w40 in the yamaha's from the start of ownership, but it "seems" like the castrol didn't work for me. but then the next question should be...

is there different types of castrol 20w40?

I just checked the Castrol site, and they don't make a GTX in 20/40, only a 10/40 or a 20/50. Yes, there are different types of Castrol....so I'm going to assume that you're not using the GTX....or you're mistaken about the viscosity range that you are using....possibly 10/40 if it's GTX.

Castrol Act>evo comes in 20/40 but it's part synthetic.

T.C.

[MindWebs]

no synthetic.

i did that once by accident on my 250 ninja, it fryed the clutch in less then 100 miles.
and that was just 1 quart of partial sythetic mixed into 4 quarts of conventional... (Valvoline had both in white bottles at the time)

moral of that story, when wrenching early in the morning, drink the coffee first, then wrench on the bikes.

so, back to the point of the thread.

i'm hearing that most oils nowdays should be ok to use in these bikes?

(barring automotive synthetics, full or partial) (too slick for clutch)

hmm? seems odd, but i hope it is that simple.

Greg, droppng oil on top of the rings is only a diagnostic tool for compression testing.
yes there is always oil below the piston, but adding it to the top give a
higher (false) compression number, oil can't leak past the rings as fast as air.
giving the higher reading.

leakdown testers would be another way of doing it, but that is slightly more involved.

still wondering what i did to wear out 3 motors.... that is a mistery
i ride a fair ammount, 200-400miles a week during the summer plus a few trips,
but there a lots of people who put alot more miles then that on they're bikes.. so,: fuel, oil, or mechanic
i usually fill with 91 octane ethenol free
oil as stated was castrol 20w40
then the last variable, the mechanic
ussually tuning is more a 2stroke issue: (lean=hot, rich=lower power)

i do set my bikes a bit on the richer side for easy starting.
and most other settings are close to stock.

my brain hurts.... i'm no sherlock holmes, and this is more then i care to question.

i'de much rather be fighting electrical issues, those are at least solvable.
maybe the teardown will show something unusual hinting at my underlying issue.

till then, our job is not to reason why, but to rail the twisties with all available speed and with all the mental strength we can muster.

(hmm, that last part probibly means i should be riding a moped)

later gentlemen.

[BA80]

Greg, droppng oil on top of the rings is only a diagnostic tool for compression testing.

OK Peter, what exactly are YOU doing when doing a compression check? Whenever I've done it in the last 40 years it was to DIAGNOSE.

When the engine is running there is oil in the rings my friend.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Pete,

You keep saying Castrol 20/40....but what TYPE of Castrol is it? As I stated, the Castrol website doesn't show the GTX in 20/40, only 10/40 or 20/50.

GTX IS designed/engineered for the shearing stresses of high performance engines/motorcycles. But Castrol also makes other types/formulas of oil, so that's why I'm trying to find out what type of Castrol you used?

You sound like you know what you're doing mechanic wise, so I really hate to bring this up, but I'm sure you're holding your throttle wide open when you're doing your compression testing?? It had been years since I had done it on my bike years ago, and got similar low values, and then had that DUH moment, and realized I had forgotten to open the throttle wide open. Repeated the test and was almost twice the values. JAT!? Trying to save you having to tear into your engine/head if you don't really have to!?

T.C.

[MindWebs]

it's been a long week at work...

T.C. you are correct, i wasn't stating the correct weight of oil.

Castrol GTX 20w50

sorry i have a jug of 20w40 yamalube partial synthetic sitting there as well..

and yes on the W.O.T. as well, that does make a difference.


ok greg, time to pick on you, or prove i'm lacking (whichever comes first )
then why if you want to dump/sell anything with a hatched motor, the first thing you do is put thicker oil in it?

because the oil seals the rings better, making a person think it's got compression.

same principle from dumping a little oil on the top of the piston.
it's just for verification purposes. to show that the rings are the issue.

a leakdown tester would be a better testing tool....

hmm... i have one of those somewhere....
and if i get my air compressor pressure switch fixed i'll be able to use the tester.

so many project so little time.....

sorry i think this thread was originally asking about oil....

sorry for the highjack. i'll start a new thread for my machines when i get some more testing done.

Thanks for the help guys!!

i do appreciate haveing some feedback!

[Radioguylogs]

More info about oil

If the community hasn't gotten tired of the latest oil discussion, one of the guys on the triple site posted his knowledge about oil types and additives:

http://www.yamaha-triples.org/forums...=23322#M141765