Making one engine out of two

[RichV]

The bearings in the other engine are in the same shape. Some could pass some show copper. I could mix and match from the two and come up with a complete set. Last resort if I can't find new ones (and they gauge ok).

Both engines had about 35K on them so it's not surprising that they show near the same wear. I was avoiding opening the second engine because I was afraid of what I would find. Looks okay but the one I'm using is better treated (even if it got flooded).

I'll select a set and see if they gauge okay tomorrow.

[mack]

Numbers

what are the numbers on the spare engine and crankshaft?

[RichV]

The stamp on the crank shows "11212" and the stamp on the case is "44444". One number is partially rubbed out on the case but it looks like a "4" like the rest.

If I plastigauge the journals, what's a normal range?

[mack]

Info

Rich I'm getting the impression that your doing this without a manual. If you don't have one you should get one.
To answer your question though, for the mains the oil clearance is 0.0009-0.0017 in and for the rods it's 0.0013-0.0021 in.
Aside from wear from usage, the main premature wearing issues in the shells comes from three sources. Gas in the oil, wrong oil or not changing the oil often enough. The shells from your spare motor may very well be in good shape.
From the numbers you provided you will have from (left to right), brown,brown, black,brown,black. They are hard to see the colour on when used so don't mix them up. Between the two motors you may get one set that will work. But always check with the plasti guage.
Here is some pictures to assist.

[mack]

clearances

Rich sorry about that, the first clearances I gave you were for and E. The proper clearances for an SH are: main=0.0014-0.0023 in. and for the rods it's 0.0017-0.0025 in.

[RichV]

Sorry, I do have the Clymer's manual but I've learned to double check the numbers they have. They do match the second set you gave me.

They also posted a torque of 17.4 ft/lb for bolts 1-10 and a variance of 0.001" on the plastigauge.

I started this whole thing looking for the crankcase journal numbers since the Clymer's manual didn't indicate where they were and it turned out mine were almost rubbed out.

[DiverRay]

If you look for catatonicbug's signature on a post, you can click on the link and download a manual. That WILL help a lot in putting the engine together.

[mack]

manuals

I keep three around here. I have the clymers because the pictures are better, the haynes because it has better discriptions of why your doing things and I also keep the factory service manual supplement handy because it has all the updates issued since 1978-1981.
Rich I have a question for you. Did your bolts numbered 1 &2 have washers on them? Mine don't, but I pulled my engine apart and then had a fire in my shop and the insurance contractors moved everything so they maybe just missing.

[RichV]

Bolts 1 and 2 did not have washers. Here's a photo of the entire set. Bolts 3 throigh 10 are the only ones with washers.

[mack]

washers

thanx Rich. I was prepared to tear the shop apart looking for them.

[trbig]

Sorry I'm late getting to this party.

The numbers on the crank and engine cases are only applicable to a new engine. A used motor with any wear on the crank, and the numbers are useless. This discussion was had in depth a long time ago, but the main thing that came from it was... there is such a tiny difference between the thickest and thinnest crank bearings (Conrod bearings never seem to go bad) that it was advised to just throw the thickest ones in there (Blue) and be done. No plastigauging.. (PITA)

That being said.. I know money is an issue with lots of folks on here, and it may work fine a long time, but if I was at a point with the cases split and replacing bearings, no way would I piece new/used crank bearings together. And this is coming from a certified cheap bastard..

[trbig]

Also, if replacing bearings, you could have just split the cases with the cylinders on the top half that has the serial numbers stamped on it, and put it on the other lower half that has just about everything else in it.. unless I read that wrong and good cylinders are on other top case half.

Not sure why the engine numbers have to match.. every place I know of go by the number on the neck of the bike, not the engine. So what happens if you throw a rod or something to where the engine case is un-usable?

[RichV]

In VA, if the numbers don't match you must have a receipt showing where you bought the engine or title for the original bike. The serial number is the VIN for this year's bike so they will have a title and registration history. I didn't get a receipt (my mistake but I do have an email history) or title so I'm using the one case I have a title on and parts from the second one.

I called to check if it had been stolen and the DMV told me the last registered owner was 10 years ago and they filed that it was sold. No one renewed the title. I could pay for a salvage title but why bother.

Long story but it doesn't matter. I was able to mix the bearings from the two engines with all slightly worn ones. I gauged the journals and they are within tolerance (dead center in range).

One final note, all the worn bearing halfs were from the bottom. The top ones showed a lot less wear. I basically used the top ones from the second engine to replace the worn bottom ones on the first. I only needed to replace two so I used the ones that would have been the same color.

So I'm moving on and putting this thing back together. Thanks for all the help.

[mack]

gauge testing

I'm not sure whats going on with this motor. It only has 10 K miles one it ,but after the first test I got .051 across the board but I wasn't happy on how the crank sat on the shells. Didn't drop straight down so I did it again and still got .051. This surprises me give the low milage but after working on it now for a while it's very apparent that little or no maintenance was ever done on it by the PO so the wear may be real.
I hear you Big. It is a pain in the butt. According to the numbers I should have brown on 1-4 and black on #5 ,but after the test, black on 1-4 and brown on 5 would put me in the range spec'd. I'll do that tomorrow and check again but I'm thinking that just putting in the blues on all five is not a bad idea.
Any implications on oil pressure at the head with the change in clearance at the crank?

[BA80]

Also, if replacing bearings, you could have just split the cases with the cylinders on the top half that has the serial numbers stamped on it, and put it on the other lower half that has just about everything else in it.. unless I read that wrong and good cylinders are on other top case half.

Not EVEN Tod, When these cases are produced the crank journals are line bored to match perfectly. Mismatching is dodgy at best. Most likely it will produce an assembly that won't turn or an assembly that will wipe out main bearings quickly.

If you've ever been into an automotive engine you will see that all the main bearing caps are numbered (if the engine has ever been disassembled) and they all have arrows pointing to the front.

That's not because the assembler was anal.

In VA, if the numbers don't match you must have a receipt showing where you bought the engine or title for the original bike. The serial number is the VIN for this year's bike so they will have a title and registration history. I didn't get a receipt (my mistake but I do have an email history) or title so I'm using the one case I have a title on and parts from the second one.

I called to check if it had been stolen and the DMV told me the last registered owner was 10 years ago and they filed that it was sold. No one renewed the title. I could pay for a salvage title but why bother.

Long story but it doesn't matter. I was able to mix the bearings from the two engines with all slightly worn ones. I gauged the journals and they are within tolerance (dead center in range).

One final note, all the worn bearing halfs were from the bottom. The top ones showed a lot less wear. I basically used the top ones from the second engine to replace the worn bottom ones on the first. I only needed to replace two so I used the ones that would have been the same color.

So I'm moving on and putting this thing back together. Thanks for all the help.

Tod is correct about the numbers on the steering head of the bike, I doubt if the examiner will even give the engine a glance on a bike that old.

As for mixing bearings? Good luck.

The bearings and crankshaft journals will have wear patterns that match each other. Swapping them around will cause them to create new ones . New WHAT you ask?.. WEARpatterns.........that = more wear so you measurements will be a moot point.