Help with voltage drop on LG

[BillyRok]

Now that I'm home from Idaho with the MNS I'm digging further into the issue I'm having with losing voltage between the battery and the TCI. Here's what I've found today, hopefully somebody can tell me what it means.

Using the diagram that Scott put up when I was out west...

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3862/...26ee42_b_d.jpg

I have 12.7v at the battery so I move on to the starter solenoid which I'm figuring is to the left of the fuse block --

[IMG][/IMG]

I have 12.66v at the top right terminal of the solenoid with the multimeter grounded at the negative battery terminal. At the red/white wire just below that terminal I only have 11.68v...should that read 12.66v also? From there I read 11.63v at both the ignition fuse in the fuse block and at the red/white wire at the TCI.

I also checked the voltage at the 2 pole connector under the tank getting 11.66volts there --
[IMG][/IMG]

Then on to the orange and gray wires going to the coils still getting 11.66v --
[IMG][/IMG]

And finally the ballast resistor, also getting 11.66v --
[IMG][/IMG]

I also checked the resistance through the ballast resistor and get 1.8 ohms, not sure if that is good or bad.

This all goes back to posts #31 and 54 from "Need help in Idaho Please." Thanks for the help in getting this sorted out.

[motoman]

Now that I'm home from Idaho with the MNS I'm digging further into the issue I'm having with losing voltage between the battery and the TCI. Here's what I've found today, hopefully somebody can tell me what it means.

Using the diagram that Scott put up when I was out west...

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3862/...26ee42_b_d.jpg

I have 12.7v at the battery so I move on to the starter solenoid which I'm figuring is to the left of the fuse block --

[IMG][/IMG]

I have 12.66v at the top right terminal of the solenoid with the multimeter grounded at the negative battery terminal. At the red/white wire just below that terminal I only have 11.68v...should that read 12.66v also? From there I read 11.63v at both the ignition fuse in the fuse block and at the red/white wire at the TCI.

I also checked the voltage at the 2 pole connector under the tank getting 11.66volts there --
[IMG][/IMG]

Then on to the orange and gray wires going to the coils still getting 11.66v --
[IMG][/IMG]

And finally the ballast resistor, also getting 11.66v --
[IMG][/IMG]

I also checked the resistance through the ballast resistor and get 1.8 ohms, not sure if that is good or bad.

This all goes back to posts #31 and 54 from "Need help in Idaho Please." Thanks for the help in getting this sorted out.

Hi Bily.
IIRC, on your sojourn back home, you had sprayed some electrical cleaner into down into ignition switch as I had suggested. Knowing that would help some with the low voltage without actually getting more involved with it being on the road, obviously did SOME good from your traveling post.
The next thing to do since at home base, short of removing and dis-assembling ignition switch, would be to look at bottom front of ignition switch, and remove that little protective tin cover where wires go into switch(can easily be done without removing fairing, not sure though since you have the PAcifico fairing), spray electrical cleaner or deoxit, stuffing that straw up in there. Spray heavily until no gunk runs out.
Next, would be to remove the right-side controls(start assembly/kill switch), CAREFULLY removing the STOP switch assembly, not letting the little spring assembly fly into oblivion. Put ALL those pieces, including switch itself into a small cup of EvapoRust(cheapist place available is HarborFreight), letting pieces soak overnite.
Remove them and blow clean with a compressor, re-assemble........THEN check that voltage again, key on.
If not a noticable gain in voltage(should be the same as batt. shows WITH key on), then unplug every visible plug-in, clean with deoxit and plug back in.
Pay SPECIAL attention to the five plug-ins behind that original fuse panel(remove screws holding panel and pull back out of way).
After doing that, might report back your findings.

[CaptonZap]

That red/wht wire is what supplies voltage to the handle bar switches, and should read the same as the big terminal on the solenoid. Since the solenoid has some screws holding the cover on, and you are feeling determined, take the cover off and see why you have a voltage drop across the internal connection.
It's been a few years since I had one apart, and I can't remember how the connection was made, so your report back would be appreciated.

CZ

[WMarshy]

IIRC ballast should be 3 ohm, your 1.8 seems quite low.

[CaptonZap]

IIRC ballast should be 3 ohm, your 1.8 seems quite low.

You're thinking of total resistance through the coils and resister, Marshy.
1.8 is a little high, but given the inaccuracies of most meters in the low ohm scales, I wouldn't worry about it.

CZ

[James England]

Have you cleaned all the connectors on the bike? Using DeOxit spray? I do this on every bike I get and work my way from one end of the bike to the other, cleaning every single block, spade and bullet, including all those in the headlamp and lurking about in difficult places. Then I strip all the switches and clean them, especially the ignition kill switch. Same goes for the lock barrel switch and so on. In my experience, for what it's worth, most problems are caused by corroded or dirty connectors, contacts and switches. Cleaning is the first port of call for me, always. I've found De-.Oxit spray to be brilliant stuff and it gets contacts shiny clean in only a few seconds.

[motoman]

Have you cleaned all the connectors on the bike? Using DeOxit spray? I do this on every bike I get and work my way from one end of the bike to the other, cleaning every single block, spade and bullet, including all those in the headlamp and lurking about in difficult places. Then I strip all the switches and clean them, especially the ignition kill switch. Same goes for the lock barrel switch and so on. In my experience, for what it's worth, most problems are caused by corroded or dirty connectors, contacts and switches. Cleaning is the first port of call for me, always. I've found De-.Oxit spray to be brilliant stuff and it gets contacts shiny clean in only a few seconds.

echo.....echo.....echo......

[WMarshy]

You're thinking of total resistance through the coils and resister, Marshy.
1.8 is a little high, but given the inaccuracies of most meters in the low ohm scales, I wouldn't worry about it.

CZ

Oops, 3 ohms for the circuit, 1.5 for the ballast, right?

[BillyRok]

Good Suggestions

For the first 4 or 5 days of my trip back from ID I was having problems with the bike running rough from idle up to about 3K on the tach. General opinion seemed to be that I was having some electrical issue(s), and maybe carb issues, though less likely. I ended up cleaning carbs and the ignition switch the same day so I couldn't be completely sure which it was that helped out with the low rpm stumble/miss. Pilot jet in #1 was buggered up so I couldn't remove that one for cleaning but did clean everything else.

What I'm trying to do now is address any known electrical issues (loss of voltage) and eliminate them, then run the bike again to see if things have improved. After this I would go back into the carbs thoroughly. So this brings up a couple of questions.

1) Assuming the battery has a full charge and shows 12.7 volts, why do I get only 11.63v at the TCI today when I was getting 12.15v at the TCI last week in SD immediately after spraying contact cleaner into the ignition switch? Nothing has changed since last week (maybe some rain got into the ignition switch?).

2) According to CZ,

That red/wht wire is what supplies voltage to the handle bar switches, and should read the same as the big terminal on the solenoid.

If it is true that this small red/white wire feeds the handle bar switches, and that this wire at the solenoid AND the handle bar switches and TCI all read 11.65v, doesn't that mean that all my connections are clean since I'm not seeing a drop in voltage between the solenoid and TCI...that the problem is inside the starter solenoid since I have 12.66v at the top right terminal and only 11.65v at the red/white wire?

I agree with all of you that all the connections/grounds should be cleaned. But what I'm trying to reason through and understand is whether my readings definitively point to the starter solenoid as the problem.

I did take the 2 small screws out at the top left and bottom right of the solenoid. I could put it apart a little, enough to see a coil spring around a post of some type in there, but I didn't want to really get after it and try to separate the 2 halves for fear of destroying something that might be tough to replace. However, if you are sure it is designed to come apart, then I will get a big screw driver and gently pry the 2 halves apart and watch where any pieces end up.

Additional thoughts?

[jetmechmarty]

On my way to XS East 2013 that red/white wire was the issue when my bike quit. In my case the problem was at the connector under the fuel tank. I cleaned it and VROOM! Pictured is my wingman, Brent.

[3Phase]

Glad you made it home, Billy!

One! More! Time! If the voltage at any point in the Ignition circuit is more than half a volt below the Battery voltage, there is a dirty or corroded connection. It's pretty much the same for every circuit in the bike, not just the Ignition. If you're really losing

The main exception to that rule is after the Ballast Resistor at the Ignition Primary +V 2-pole connector. The current runs through a resistor to the Ignition coils so the voltage there is supposed to be lower than it is in the rest of the Ignition circuit.


Spraying cleaner in the Ignition switch may have temporarily loosened up the crud in the switch but it may not stay that way. There's about 12 to 15 Amps running through the Ignition switch and its connector and it doesn't take much resistance at all to make it heat up and oxidize again.


The Red/White wire at the starter solenoid is the very last point in the 10A Ignition circuit. It's the solenoid coil +V wire and it comes down from the TCI to the solenoid coil. The Blue/White wire is the solenoid coil -V wire and it goes back up to the Start button and grounds on the handlebar.

The voltage at the solenoid Red/White should be the same as it is at the TCI and it should also be within a half volt of the Battery voltage: 12.7V at the battery should be at least 12.2V on the Red/White wire at the solenoid coil.


1.8 Ohms for the Ballast Resistor is good; might be a little high because you had the key on and the resistor was warmed up.

There should be two voltages at the Ballast Resistor leads:

One lead is a splice in the 10A Red/White wire from the Stop/Run switch and it should be at least 12.2V if the battery is 12.7V

The second lead should be where you got 11.66V after it's run through the ballast resistor. It runs over to the 2-pole +V Ignition Primary connector.

11.66V at the 2-pole Red/White +V Ignition coil connector is fine.
11.66V at the Ignition coil -V Orange and Gray wires is a little odd.

What's the Ignition coil Primary resistance, Red/White wire to Orange or Gray wire? It should be 1.5 Ohms.

.

[motoman]

Whewwww........was hopin' you'd chime in with the details.........I just know how to 'get there from here'......and all the check points in between.
But that was after an EXTENSIVE 3Phase XS11 Electrical 101 course......and OJT..........think I passed......barely........damn, I hate havin' to remember chit I was taught three decades ago.......makes the all the 'allimportantsmoke' emmit from my ears.....

[BillyRok]

Progress?

I've done some work trying to track down the voltage drop. Took the ignition switch apart and cleaned it. Took the kill switch apart and soaked it in Evaporust overnight. Also swapped out the 30 amp main fuse with a blade style replacement, that didn't seem to make any difference. Then I got looking at the connector from the ignition switch to the harness and saw this --

[IMG][/IMG]

The white plastic is discolored where the red wire must have gotten hot. And the metal connector is shiny brass color at the end but a brown/copper color where it's crimped to the wire.

[IMG][/IMG]

Then checked the harness end of the connection --

[IMG][/IMG]

More evidence of excess heat in the plastic and the strands of copper in the red wire were so stiff in the last half inch of wire that I couldn't bend it. So I replaced both connectors using an automotive crimping tool and plugged things back together. Now I have 12.87v at the battery and 12.3v at the TCI, still over the .5v goal but much better than the 11.7v at the TCI before. Need more DeOxit before I can clean anymore connections.

[motoman]

I've done some work trying to track down the voltage drop. Took the ignition switch apart and cleaned it. Took the kill switch apart and soaked it in Evaporust overnight. Also swapped out the 30 amp main fuse with a blade style replacement, that didn't seem to make any difference. Then I got looking at the connector from the ignition switch to the harness and saw this --

[IMG][/IMG]

The white plastic is discolored where the red wire must have gotten hot. And the metal connector is shiny brass color at the end but a brown/copper color where it's crimped to the wire.

[IMG][/IMG]

Then checked the harness end of the connection --

[IMG][/IMG]

More evidence of excess heat in the plastic and the strands of copper in the red wire were so stiff in the last half inch of wire that I couldn't bend it. So I replaced both connectors using an automotive crimping tool and plugged things back together. Now I have 12.87v at the battery and 12.3v at the TCI, still over the .5v goal but much better than the 11.7v at the TCI before. Need more DeOxit before I can clean anymore connections.

I presume you also cut back the wire to before the discoloration . it'll have resistance, dropping voltage if not .

[BillyRok]

Never presume too much but yes I did