XS Starting problem. One click and... nothing:(

[D0wn5h1ft]

Hey Marshy,

Thanks for adding the Stuck Valve info. Hopefully Leezardus is still just soaking it still, and so has time to get some PB Blaster, take off the carbs and the exhaust headers, and visually inspect the valve checking for rust on any that are partially OPEN, and then squirt a liberal amount of the PB Blaster onto the valve stem up to the valve guide in an attempt to dissolve any rust.

Regrettably he can't take the head off before getting the pistons unstuck because of the need to be able to rotate the cams to be able to get to both bolts that secure the cam sprockets on the cams/shoulders to be able to get enough slack to get the chain loose!

T.C.

I've only had the heads off my bike twice but technically couldn't you just undo the cam bearing caps after taking the CCT off and unhook the cam chain from the sprockets to be able to rotate it and take off the cam sprocket bolts? There "should" be enough slack to do that after the cam chain bridge is removed, right?

[WMarshy]

I've only had the heads off my bike twice but technically couldn't you just undo the cam bearing caps after taking the CCT off and unhook the cam chain from the sprockets to be able to rotate it and take off the cam sprocket bolts? There "should" be enough slack to do that after the cam chain bridge is removed, right?

Yes, you need to remove the cam chain tensioner and then you can take the chain off the cam sprockets without having to mess with rotating the cams/crank to access the sprocket bolts. Then with the chain off you can take the bearing caps off and remove the cams.

[leezardus]

Hi guys, its me again.

As you recommended I took off the carbs, applied some PB blaster on valves and inside cylinders (through spark plug holes).
Then after a while tried to push it back and forward on a gear. No result.

Then i went further...

Took off cylinder head cover and the CCTs (there're 2 of them i suppose?).
Unfortunately it's not enough slack to take the chain off from the sprockets. Also i have no access to the sprocket's bolts. So i'm stuck with it at this point.

Also I'm going to remove exhaust headers and apply some PB blaster on the exhaust valves as well.

If that not gonna help would it be possible to break the cam chain off, make the job done and then rivet it again?

[jetmechmarty]

Hmmm. The cam chain part doesn't sound right. The cam chain tensioner is on the front of the engine. Two bolts remove it. The two part thing you refer to must be the chain damper assy that you don't need to mess with. Unless the chain is new, removing the tensioner should give you all the slack you need to remove the cams.

[leezardus]

Hmmm. The cam chain part doesn't sound right. The cam chain tensioner is on the front of the engine. Two bolts remove it. The two part thing you refer to must be the chain damper assy that you don't need to mess with. Unless the chain is new, removing the tensioner should give you all the slack you need to remove the cams.

Yes you're right. I confused. I've also removed the chain damper that is in between the sprockets.

[leezardus]

Here we go...

as expected, 1 cylinder is rusted

[leezardus]

after 1,5 hour of intensive work with a 220 sandpaper and a few kicks with a hammer handle over the cylinder top:





and here's it - VICTORY!

[cajun31]

no pictures

Maybe TC can help you with your pictures... they are not showing up for me.

[leezardus]

Btw, do i need a master link for the cam chain in order to join it back?
I broke it in a random place since i had no access to its master link (if it has one).

[cajun31]

Don't know

what your budget is but if it were me and I was already in there I would replace the chain. Here is an older thread that discusses that http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ight=cam+chain

[leezardus]

Can't edit my previous posts with the pictures so i'm reposting them. Hope this gonna work now.


----------------------------------------------------------
Here we go...

as expected, 1 cylinder is rusted










after 1,5 hour of intensive work with a 220 sandpaper and a few kicks with a hammer handle over the cylinder top



and here's it - VICTORY!

[jetmechmarty]

Cam chains are continuous. You'll probably need to know what brand it is to get a new link. You may be better off buying a new chain and a link. The new chain will have to be cut and riveted back together.

[cajun31]

Just an opinion

But if you did not have that cylinder honed and measured and specs checked with the existing rings your going to have problems out of that cylinder. From the pictures you posted it looks like there was some pitting going on that you have evidently sanded out. Possibly have an out of round condition created that are going to possibly become a problem with compression etc.... Just my 2 cents and hopefully I am wrong.

[James England]

Piston rings are made of cast-iron and I would think they rusted too. I'm not sure what I personally would do here but here's a few thoughts....

The engine is in the frame and it wouldn't be too hard to get everything back together and running. Then you'll find whether sanding the cylinder and/or rusted rings makes for problems with that cylinder. Are those dark sponges in the pic actually pits??

I think if the engine were out of the frame, with all the slog required to put it back in, I would remove the cylinders and replace the rings at least. However, this can be one hell of a job, with many cylinder blocks refusing to move and only doing so after a lot of work. And, your engine isin the frame already...

I think on balance, I would put it together and cautiously run the engine and see what happens. You may actually be lucky and find it's OK. If not, then of course you can address that problem later.

If the splodges are in fact pits, I think you'd be advised to take the block off and get a rebore done......

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Leezardus,

Sorry to see/hear that I was right regarding it getting rusted during inadequate storage?? That is a bit more than FLASH rusting, but I've read about members who had engines that were LOCKED/RUSTED, got them loosened up with MMO or such, did original comp. tests and they were LOW, but ran the engines several hundred miles and allowed the rings to both scrub and reseat, and the comp levels came back up to very close to stock values.

However, they did NOT take the head/engines apart. You're alot further along than that. Perhaps you could rent/borrow a cylinder caliper/gauge from a local auto store and perform the wear measurements along several positions and vertical points where the rust was, as well as a fellow undamaged cylinder and see how they compare, and if it's still within specs!?

The other thing I would be worried about would be the rings being rusted/corroded to the piston so that they would not apply the proper outward pressure to reseat. I think since you already have the head off would be to the jugs off, and remove/clean/derust the rings and then reinstall, again provided the damaged cylinder is still within specs. I'll defer to the real mechanics regarding whether you would want to try to do a very slight/gentle honing, or just put the jugs back on, button it up and run it!?

Good luck!

T.C.