Self-inflicted Oil Consumption

[3Phase]

Besides.......you got a 79 that I'm still lookin' forward to seeing finished......white, black soft cases, smoke shield........now THAT just LOOKS like it's about takin' care of business.......with the right hand.

Yebbut I'm out of good, serviceable jugs and pistons. I might be able to clean up the ones from the '79F and use 'em for the '79SF engine but that's kind of a long shot.

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[Murrayf]

send me a set to play with i will fix them when i have the time and send them

back

[3Phase]

send me a set to play with i will fix them when i have the time and send them back

It should be on its way tomorrow.

I'll box and ship the good 2H7 jugs from my '80G -- no broken or repaired fins.
The pistons and wrist pins from the '80G are bad so they're off to the recycle bin and I'll send the good set of 3H5 pistons and pins from the XJ11.

Have fun!
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[Murrayf]

boy you have never sleeved a set of jugs lol

it is a boring meticulous job if i have time i will shoot you some pics

3 times the work of a re-bore plus a lot more measuring and checking

[3Phase]

boy you have never sleeved a set of jugs lol

it is a boring meticulous job if i have time i will shoot you some pics

3 times the work of a re-bore plus a lot more measuring and checking

It's not something I've tried at home so I have no personal experience with it but from what other members have written about the XS11 engine, you heat the jugs in an oven and the sleeves come out without boring. Assembly is the reverse of disassembly. <stares> Right!


The sleeves I've replaced were in engines where the sleeves were designed to come out and be replaced but that was many, many years ago in a different life and I had the tools. The only time I've had any boring and sleeving done was when a reputable machine shop advised it because one cylinder was ovaled and the block was already bored out to the max. They'd done good work for me in the past and it was an otherwise perfect block with a lot of tedious, time-consuming and 'spendy custom work done to it so I wanted to save it. That was an expensive mistake I'll never repeat and weeks of my life I'll never get back. The engine never ran "right" again and now I don't trust machine shops or machinists so I just cut the machinists and the shops out of the loop -- life's too short to argue with them so I leave them alone -- and get rid of what I consider junk, then buy new parts or find used parts that're in spec and haven't been touched by anyone except the factory. If that's not possible I just find another engine that hasn't been messed with too badly and start over. A seized engine in a car or truck from botched machine work is annoying, in a motorcycle it'll kill ya.


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[Murrayf]

its not as simple as swap sleeves

[3Phase]

its not as simple as swap sleeves

That's what I thought, too.

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[3Phase]

The Bad Lands

The XJ11 cylinders were not the only things that died on 2014 Colorado Rally, the pistons are junk too.

I've started the work to replace the bad jugs so I cleaned the XJ11 3H5 pistons to pack for storage . These pistons only had ~18,000 miles on them before the trip to Colorado but all of the ring lands on all four pistons are totally destroyed.:

XS11000 3H5 Piston with Bad Ring Lands


I thought I hadn't neutralized the dilute 7% or 8% phosphoric acid solution I used to remove the flash rust on the cylinder walls but I don't think that was the problem now. I scrubbed the heck out of the jugs with baking soda. There shouldn't have been anything left but the cylinder walls got destroyed and the piston ring lands are toasted too so something else went wrong. I don't know where to look.

I may have to pull the oil pan to see if anything else in the engine looks corroded or pull it and split the cases.

I'm tired.

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[trbig]

I thought I hadn't neutralized the dilute 7% or 8% phosphoric acid solution I used to remove the flash rust on the cylinder walls but I don't think that was the problem now.

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Because a fogging oil would have been way too easy? lol. I have a few low mileage motors.. Too bad you're 1500 miles away, Scott. I'm sure you can find something a bit closer though.

[3Phase]

Because a fogging oil would have been way too easy? lol. I have a few low mileage motors.. Too bad you're 1500 miles away, Scott. I'm sure you can find something a bit closer though.

I don't have fogging oil, I don't do enough engine work to need it. Do you have any idea what might have caused the cylinder wall finish and the piston ring lands to destroy themselves in less than two-thousand miles?

The weak acid wasn't the problem. I wiped the cylinders down with oil but then I had to paint the jugs. When it was done there was some rust so it got a quick wipe with phosphoric acid, a baking soda rinse; dry, then more oil to set it on the pistons.

I'm not looking forward to pulling the pan or splitting the case. It's not difficult but it won't be ready to ride by Thursday.

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[trbig]

After you got the motor together, how did you break it in?

[3Phase]

Distorted Cylinders Ate My Pistons

After you got the motor together, how did you break it in?

That may be part of the problem, the jugs and pistons were out of that wrecked XJ11 that I bought with only ~18,000 miles on the clock. I tried to get away with using the original rings because when I was checking the end gaps on the new rings I bought on eBay for $40 I discovered that they were 1st oversize and I couldn't use them.

To do the initial set for the rings I did the low(ish) RPM loading and unloading in 4th and 5th gear, then worked up to higher RPMs over about 25 miles. 'Roo was with me and we got a late start for the trip to the Colorado Rally after I changed the oil. There was some metal in the oil but at the time I thought it was just the rings resetting and the usual 'stuff' from replacing the jugs and pistons. The engine pumped oil out the exhaust for the whole trip and didn't stop until it spit a spark plug in Beaver, UT and got put on a U-Haul.


I just went out to the garage to pull the pan and I looked at the cylinders again out of disgust. I hadn't noticed it before but the wear pattern is wrong. I'll try to get some pictures but the rings made shiny marks where they were in contact with the walls and the cylinders aren't round, they're distorted. That must have happened when the bike got wrecked and the engine came to a sudden stop. It snapped in half like an egg shell when it hit the guardrail post but the existing wear pattern in the cylinders was normal and the pistons were fine when I put them in.

I wish I could just buy new parts instead of scrounging around for low-mileage engines and trying to use used parts that aren't quite as used as the used parts I was using.

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[3Phase]

My friends came by today so I didn't pull the pan.

In between scraping pistons and cleaning some totally gnarly baked-on oil and fuel residue out of the cylinder fins of the 'new' 2H7 jugs I remembered get a picture of the weird cylinder corrosion and the 'striped' wear pattern.

You can still see the hone marks but the finish is pitted and looks like one of those crack-toothed smileys with the black eye, the wear pattern looks like pinstripes:-

XS1100 Bad #2 Cylinder


Abde-abde-abde-abde-ab-that's all, folks!

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