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While we are on the subject of gears... Strange shifting

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  • #1

    While we are on the subject of gears... Strange shifting

    Hey guys,

    I'm getting some strange shifting behaviour almost always while shifting down.

    When I'm shifting down some times the lever stays down. When I then shift up, it goes into 2nd instead of neutral.

    Sometimes it will not shift into first right away and I have to mess with it.

    Sometimes it will only shift into neutral until I shift up and down again. Seems to shift down better while moving above 10 mph.

    Once it seemed to end up between gears and made some grinding noises. That time I stopped and shifted down until it went into first. It has always returned to normal after messing with it a bit. (knock wood)

    It started after I did two things:
    #1. I changed the oil to a semi-synthetic M/C wet clutch 20-40W approved Lucas oil from whatever the PO had in there.

    The strange shifting didn't start untill after I did #2

    #2. I lowered the shift lever one spline which made it hit the header pipes at the end of it's travel. Only noticed after It stated shifting weird. Don't know how much it retarded the travel yet.

    I returned the lever to it's original position but It still shifts weird sometimes.

    It did pop out of second a few times but only recently and randomly. Don't know if it's related to the strange shifting or if I need the dremel fix.

    Any ideas?
    Last edited by Orange4; 07-22-2014, 11:09 PM.
    Living to EXcess.
    1978 XS1100E Canadian, Cartridge emulators, NOS heavy duty fork springs,
    Showa rear shocks, ACCT, Jardine 4-2 spaghetti pipes.
    1979 XS1100F Canadian, stock exhaust. Top end rebuild in progress.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Originally posted by Orange4 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I'm getting some strange shifting behaviour almost always while shifting down.

    When I'm shifting down some times the lever stays down. When I then shift up, it goes into 2nd instead of neutral.
    Shift pawl likely out of adjustment.....put in second gear, remove shift cover(

    Sometimes it will not shift into first right away and I have to mess with it.

    Sometimes it will only shift into neutral until I shift up and down again. Seems to shift down better while moving above 10 mph.

    Once it seemed to end up between gears and made some grinding noises. That time I stopped and shifted down until it went into first. It has always returned to normal after messing with it a bit. (knock wood)

    It started after I did two things:
    #1. I changed the oil to a semi-synthetic M/C wet clutch 20-40W approved Lucas oil from whatever the PO had in there.

    The strange shifting didn't start untill after I did #2

    #2. I lowered the shift lever one spline which made it hit the header pipes at the end of it's travel. Only noticed after It stated shifting weird. Don't know how much it retarded the travel yet.

    I returned the lever to it's original position but It still shifts weird sometimes.

    It did pop out of second a few times but only recently and randomly. Don't know if it's related to the strange shifting or if I need the dremel fix.

    Any ideas?
    Likely shift pawl out of adjustment....remove shifter and cover after engaging to SECOND gear. Alignment marks align....if not, adjusting is done at the cam eccentric at shift shaft, lock but and adjustment screw.
    81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

    Comment

    • #3
      Ok. Thanks. I'll get into that and have a look.
      Living to EXcess.
      1978 XS1100E Canadian, Cartridge emulators, NOS heavy duty fork springs,
      Showa rear shocks, ACCT, Jardine 4-2 spaghetti pipes.
      1979 XS1100F Canadian, stock exhaust. Top end rebuild in progress.

      Comment

      • #4
        There is a centering spring inside the cover on the shift lever shaft, might be broken? JAT
        2H7 (79) owned since '89
        3H3 owned since '06

        "If it ain't broke, modify it"

        ☮

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by bikerphil View Post
          There is a centering spring inside the cover on the shift lever shaft, might be broken? JAT
          That too......if lever has no 'return' tension on it.
          81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by bikerphil View Post
            There is a centering spring inside the cover on the shift lever shaft, might be broken? JAT
            Or weak. Had a weak one on my SF I had to change
            Greg

            Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

            ― Albert Einstein

            80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

            The list changes.

            Comment

            • #7
              Does not seem like the spring. It just gets stuck down and pops to level once I lever it up with my foot. Not a lot of force needed.

              I'll get it open tonight after work.
              Living to EXcess.
              1978 XS1100E Canadian, Cartridge emulators, NOS heavy duty fork springs,
              Showa rear shocks, ACCT, Jardine 4-2 spaghetti pipes.
              1979 XS1100F Canadian, stock exhaust. Top end rebuild in progress.

              Comment

              • #8
                It's the spring. Easy fix.
                Greg

                Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                ― Albert Einstein

                80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                The list changes.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Orange4 View Post
                  Does not seem like the spring. It just gets stuck down and pops to level once I lever it up with my foot. Not a lot of force needed.

                  I'll get it open tonight after work.
                  Exactly BA80's point.
                  81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Hey Orange,

                    You may already be working on it, but from your description it IS the spring, they get sprung like all other springs. When that happens it will NOT push the shift lever back UP to the normal position which resets the pawl to grab the next gear. The spring is only like $10-15, order/get one and replace it while you're in there! You'll probably find that the alignment it right on position, and that will further confirm that it's the spring that's preventing it from working right. It usually affects downshifting not up shifting!

                    T.C.
                    T. C. Gresham
                    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                    History shows again and again,
                    How nature points out the folly of men!

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Well the spring seemed fine but what I did find was that the shift lever #1 was welded on to the shift shaft slightly off 90° so that it was not lined up properly at the shift lever #2. It may have slipped off in certain circumstances and become misaligned.

                      There was about 1.5mm of end play on the shift shaft which might have been enough to allow it to slip off. I did find the wear marks to be right near the edge of the shift lever gears and some edge rounding as evidence of the misalignment. Also seems to explain the random shift lever behaviour.

                      I'm not yet 100% sure but it did shift properly when I had the cover off. I have not reassembled yet.
                      Living to EXcess.
                      1978 XS1100E Canadian, Cartridge emulators, NOS heavy duty fork springs,
                      Showa rear shocks, ACCT, Jardine 4-2 spaghetti pipes.
                      1979 XS1100F Canadian, stock exhaust. Top end rebuild in progress.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        saw some parts on Ebay

                        Might be what you need... JAT.

                        http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...+gear&_sacat=0
                        2 - 80 LGs bought one new
                        81 LH
                        02 FXSTB Nighttrain
                        22 FLTRK Road Glide Limited
                        Jim

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Orange4 View Post
                          Well the spring seemed fine but what I did find was that the shift lever #1 was welded on to the shift shaft slightly off 90° so that it was not lined up properly at the shift lever #2. It may have slipped off in certain circumstances and become misaligned.

                          There was about 1.5mm of end play on the shift shaft which might have been enough to allow it to slip off. I did find the wear marks to be right near the edge of the shift lever gears and some edge rounding as evidence of the misalignment. Also seems to explain the random shift lever behaviour.

                          I'm not yet 100% sure but it did shift properly when I had the cover off. I have not reassembled yet.
                          If your referring to the shift pawl shaft like I think you may be doing, any end-play in that IS a result of the circlip coming off the other side(clutch side). That results in the idler gear that runs the oil pump to fall off shaft and kinda float around. Good side of that, is it's captured behind the clutch assembly and still engages with oil pump gear. If initially what I stated is correct, that clutch side cover needs to come off for closer inspection.
                          81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            BTW, if that be the case, do NOT re-use that circlip.
                            81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              There was less end play on the second lever and it had its circlip, I will take a quick Check on the clutch side.
                              Living to EXcess.
                              1978 XS1100E Canadian, Cartridge emulators, NOS heavy duty fork springs,
                              Showa rear shocks, ACCT, Jardine 4-2 spaghetti pipes.
                              1979 XS1100F Canadian, stock exhaust. Top end rebuild in progress.

                              Comment

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