Something snapped! A diagnosis.

[BA80]

If you click on their names you can check their profiles to see when the last time the visited the forum was. Some, a lot of them may not be around anymore. Check other states around you also.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=76

[mesmeridicus]

A final reservation I have regarding the proposed transmission fix is my uncertainty over whether the fix will address the issue with my bike. The issue is not just first or second gear, but all gears. The bike will not move in any gear. I'd hate to get halfway into the fix only to discover that it won't remedy the problem.

I've looked at the member list for Ohio/Michigan, and found a few guys who live near me. I'll be contacting them tomorrow to see if they have the time or inclination to help out an amateur like myself.

[mesmeridicus]

First off, a reputable is NOT gonna do it without splitting the cases(dats what the manual says, and dats all they know). Secondly, they're not gonna back-cut/ dremel the engaging 'dogs'(liability factor). Thirdly, that leaves gear replacement only option for them. Problem is, availability.............now, your back to here.
Oh!....almost forgot.....no tech in shop today could even take one of these motors apart and CORRCTLY re-assemble it to run anyways.
The positive side..........have seen several members here over the years that were not mechaically inclined AND clueless do the tranny fix and beyond with vebal help from here.............only dumb question, is the one you chose not to ask......just sayin'.

Well, I may not have much of a choice!

I do not look forward to the prospect of implementing this repair myself, but I take heart at all the support offered here. I'm reading the transmission fix thread presently.

[mesmeridicus]

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6331

Wow, thanks. That's encouraging. Several members quite close.

[motoman]

Alright. I'll keep investigating.

However, I am not at all mechanically inclined. If the issue is the transmission, and I were to take it to a shop, do you guys have any idea how much it might set me back? A lot, I know, but five hundred? Fifteen hundred? Etc.

This shop is about two miles from my house:

http://www.williamsvintagecycle.com/

And I have a good relationship with the guys who run it.

First off, a reputable is NOT gonna do it without splitting the cases(dats what the manual says, and dats all they know). Secondly, they're not gonna back-cut/ dremel the engaging 'dogs'(liability factor). Thirdly, that leaves gear replacement only option for them. Problem is, availability.............now, your back to here.
Oh!....almost forgot.....no tech in shop today could even take one of these motors apart and CORRCTLY re-assemble it to run anyways.
The positive side..........have seen several members here over the years that were not mechaically inclined AND clueless do the tranny fix and beyond with vebal help from here.............only dumb question, is the one you chose not to ask......just sayin'.

[BA80]

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6331

[BA80]

Most of the motorcycle techs nowadays haven't got a clue about these bikes.

[mesmeridicus]

Well,

The mech rates are anywhere from $50.00 to $75.00 or more an hour. As you've heard us say it can take a WEEKEND to do it, because of the prep work to flip the bike, then the teardown of the engine components just to get to the Tranny, then getting the gears out, then performing the Dremel work on them, then putting it all back together! Yes...pretty much Exhorbitant costs!! AND the other problem may be that with a motorcycle shop...their liability may not permit them to just MODIFY the gears, but to have to put in NEW ones, and they are getting scarce if not now unavailable from Yamaha....as well as $$.

So....as stated before, see about contacting an Xsive near you that could lend you a hand, you'll be amazed at what mech. skills you can develop! And to own one of these machines, you NEED to, otherwise you'll never be able to afford one, much less being able to keep it running!

T.C.

Man, why couldn't it have been the clutch.

Whatever I decide to do, I'll post back here and update you all.
I'm in Dayton, Ohio, currently (south-western Ohio).

I'm clinging to the hope that it may be the middle drive as suggested earlier, but we'll see.

Thanks again for everyone's help, it's been indispensable.

[TopCatGr58]

Well,

The mech rates are anywhere from $50.00 to $75.00 or more an hour. As you've heard us say it can take a WEEKEND to do it, because of the prep work to flip the bike, then the teardown of the engine components just to get to the Tranny, then getting the gears out, then performing the Dremel work on them, then putting it all back together! Yes...pretty much Exhorbitant costs!! AND the other problem may be that with a motorcycle shop...their liability may not permit them to just MODIFY the gears, but to have to put in NEW ones, and they are getting scarce if not now unavailable from Yamaha....as well as $$.

So....as stated before, see about contacting an Xsive near you that could lend you a hand, you'll be amazed at what mech. skills you can develop! And to own one of these machines, you NEED to, otherwise you'll never be able to afford one, much less being able to keep it running!

T.C.

[mesmeridicus]

The plot thickens. The more info you provide, the better we can analyze. As Greg has already alluded to, it's sounding more like the trans now. We often talk about the 2nd gear problem because it more commonly occurs with 2nd gear, BUT it can also occur in 1st gear( read the tech tip). Your bike/engine had low miles, but if the PO really hot rodded it and did lots of speed shifting and such, he could have worn the dogs/slots quicker than the usual 40-50k range we see this occur.

There is a fair amount of driveline slack due to the various parts/gears involved from the crank/primary chain/middle drive/driveshaft/final drive. Some of the thumping you hear when rotating the rear wheel back/forth is just a combination of taking up the driveline slack, but also possibly some slapping of the primary chain if it's gotten a little stretched as well.

If you've got space/room and cover where you're working on it now, you might just want to follow the tip and continue diving in. However, you may want to put the clutch cover back on, and then re test drive it to get a final confirmation of the symptoms. When you accellerate gently you should be able to go up thru the gears, but when you get on the throttle in 1st or 2nd, that's when you can experience what we call the "SKIP" sensation where the gear slips apart and then slams back together. If you experience this affect, then you've confirmed the need for the dremel fix and can then plan your attack around your schedule. I forgot to note where you are, many of us have done this repair, and so there might be someone near you that could guide you with the gear grinding part is desired/wanted.

T.C.

Alright. I'll keep investigating.

However, I am not at all mechanically inclined. If the issue is the transmission, and I were to take it to a shop, do you guys have any idea how much it might set me back? A lot, I know, but five hundred? Fifteen hundred? Etc.

This shop is about two miles from my house:

http://www.williamsvintagecycle.com/

And I have a good relationship with the guys who run it.

[jetmechmarty]

If you have a long term relationship with these motorcycles, it's inevitable that you're going to go here. The worst of it is getting started. Get busy and you can get it done over the weekend! This assuming you require the transmission fix. Having a talented friend helps too!

[mack]

Tranny

Sorry to say I believe it is the tranny as well. Good news is you don't have to split the cases to do it. The tech tip shows how to make the repair with the bike on it's back. Some have done this in a day and still had time for beer and supper.
In one of the links is a title, "between the cases". Have a look at that to familiarize your self with what you'll be seeing when the pan is off. (albeit from a different angle) Make sure you have all the necessary tools on hand before you start. Nothing worse than getting half through a job and having to run to the store.

[TopCatGr58]

Accelerating moderately hard in first gear into second.

Put bike on centerstand, rear wheel will move in first gear without much resistance (there is some), and I hear a clunking sound when I turn it in gear.

Headed back out to garage to open her up.

The plot thickens. The more info you provide, the better we can analyze. As Greg has already alluded to, it's sounding more like the trans now. We often talk about the 2nd gear problem because it more commonly occurs with 2nd gear, BUT it can also occur in 1st gear( read the tech tip). Your bike/engine had low miles, but if the PO really hot rodded it and did lots of speed shifting and such, he could have worn the dogs/slots quicker than the usual 40-50k range we see this occur.

There is a fair amount of driveline slack due to the various parts/gears involved from the crank/primary chain/middle drive/driveshaft/final drive. Some of the thumping you hear when rotating the rear wheel back/forth is just a combination of taking up the driveline slack, but also possibly some slapping of the primary chain if it's gotten a little stretched as well.

If you've got space/room and cover where you're working on it now, you might just want to follow the tip and continue diving in. However, you may want to put the clutch cover back on, and then re test drive it to get a final confirmation of the symptoms. When you accellerate gently you should be able to go up thru the gears, but when you get on the throttle in 1st or 2nd, that's when you can experience what we call the "SKIP" sensation where the gear slips apart and then slams back together. If you experience this affect, then you've confirmed the need for the dremel fix and can then plan your attack around your schedule. I forgot to note where you are, many of us have done this repair, and so there might be someone near you that could guide you with the gear grinding part is desired/wanted.

T.C.

[BA80]

I circled in red the area I figured the sound was coming from when I turned the wheel. My best approximation.

The area you have circled is the middle drive. A much easier fix than the transmission. Just swap it out with a good one.

First, check the fluid. The drain plug is in the rear of the engine near the swingarm in the center. It looks just like the engine oil drain plug.

[BA80]

Some play is normal, a lotta gears there. I'll almost bet from what you've posted your having a transmission issue. It's pretty common and it will spook you a little when those second gear dogs slip.

The repair isn't really difficult but it's time consuming and will test your nerves.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5090

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37214

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161