Clutchless

[Radioguylogs]

After 1 year and 8 months of patient loving and polishing my 1/2 basket case SF, the great moment of truth finally arrived on Saturday.

Started right up.

No gas came out- good.

No oil came out (at first)- good.

Immediately, I notice I have a problem with high idle I should address in a separate post if I don't solve it by doing the obvious things... and the less obvious things.

So I hopped on, pulled the clutch and popped into first gear. It spun the rear wheel and the engine died.

Clutch will not disengage.

I always thought it had a hard feel to it, so I checked the actuator and the cable really well while I had the cover off to polish it last winter.

Since Saturday, I read the older posts about stuck clutches, and tried to unstick the clutch. I favor Crazy Steve's method of second gear on centerstand, poke the rear brake. When that didn't make it work, I knew I was going to have to take it apart again.

Tonight I pulled the cover again and inspected the actuator. The 3 bearing are in place and it operates just like it should.

Nothing else looks wrong, so I paused to do the research before I go on to remove the clutch. I saw the nice pictorial form T.C on removing the clutch, so I'll review that again and read the manuals.

Though I might ask for any insight before I proceed.

This problem is different than any issue I have seen in the previous posts. Any suggestions on why the clutch does not move at all?

Possible hint: Very, very bad gasoil in it when I bought it.

Judging from the registration, it hasn't run in about 5 years.

I appreciate any thoughts. My is thinking is the whole thing might be glued together from the gasoil.

[jwhughes3]

Add 2-3oz seafoam to crankcase, idle awhile, on centerstand in gear run bike and work lever....after 20-30 minutes shut down and cool down. Repeat until it unsticks.

John

[Radioguylogs]

Thanks for your input John.

Unfortunately, I already have the cover off.

Hopefully I have a chance to get the thing apart if I proceed?

[jjz28]

if you do take it apart, I would clean the steels and plates real good. Maybe put in some barton heavy duty springs while you are in there.

[Radioguylogs]

So, after I got educated, I took the clutch apart. It is SOOOOOOO much easier than my XS750ers.

Think this might be a problem?



I think the gasoil hint was well founded. All of the friction material is peeling and crumbling off of the friction plates. I am so glad I stopped trying to get it unstuck and instead, took it apart before I spread the debris throughout the engine. As it turns out, none of the plates had crumbled before I got them out.

Thanks for the input.

[D0wn5h1ft]

So, after I got educated, I took the clutch apart. It is SOOOOOOO much easier than my XS750ers.

Think this might be a problem?



I think the gasoil hint was well founded. All of the friction material is peeling and crumbling off of the friction plates. I am so glad I stopped trying to get it unstuck and instead, took it apart before I spread the debris throughout the engine. As it turns out, none of the plates had crumbled before I got them out.

Thanks for the input.

I was going to say, the clutch is really easy to get out. Had to do it on my first XS11 that had the bad trans.

A little tip: make sure you follow the guidelines in the manual for reinstalling the start plate. It is way too easy to break one of the bolt flanges off and have a bad day. You might consider installing new clutch springs if you haven't thought about it yet. Those old ones are probably going to be garbage. It's a cheap, easy job to do and you'll never have to worry about a slipping clutch in the future! Do look at Ian's thread though. You have to fashion up some sort of clutch plate compressor to get the first couple of bolts on (sort of like a harley! )

[Radioguylogs]

Gabe:

Thanks for the input.

I do plan on measuring the springs later tonight, but if I replace them, I don't want to make operating the clutch into a forearm muscle builder.

I had been watching Ian's post and he did notice it took a lot more effort to pull the stiffer springs.

I ordered OE friction plates today. I figure the stock parts will operate to my satisfaction if I make sure the springs are in spec.

[D0wn5h1ft]

Gabe:

Thanks for the input.

I do plan on measuring the springs later tonight, but if I replace them, I don't want to make operating the clutch into a forearm muscle builder.

I had been watching Ian's post and he did notice it took a lot more effort to pull the stiffer springs.

I ordered OE friction plates today. I figure the stock parts will operate to my satisfaction if I make sure the springs are in spec.

I rode his bike just before I left for the east coast and I have to say it definitely is not as bad as his posts make it seem. Although I did only take it a mile up the road and back it didn't seem much worse than mine.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Radio/Mike,

The Barnett's are not that much harder than the OEMs, and with a new or properly lubed/working cable, the pull will be easier than it is/was with your current corroded cable!! Even thought the springs might be in spec...doubt it though....they have endured continuous heat/compression cycles. They still LOOSE their tension/strength....and it's such a PITA as well as a possible risk of damage to the star plate....why risk putting it back together with OLD springs just to have to go back in again....get the new springs and cable,frictions, clean/lube the 3 bearings/throwout assembly, and be DONE with it! JMHO. Also, just go to the hardware store and get a couple of slightly longer metric bolts than stock to get the others started, and then replace with the oem's after the others are started.

I didn't know about the Barnett springs when I did my extra steel plate trick/tip... otherwise I wouldn't have done/made that tip. As I stated in the tip, I had replaced my OEM springs with Vesrah heavy duty springs, but just a few years later they started to slip, and that was with decently spec'd frictions, Dino oil.

T.C.

[bikerphil]

If you are using new frictions, the normal strength EBC springs should work fine, no slipping and won't require popeye arm. I have done this on both my bikes and this setup was good for 50K+ until the frictions wear down enough for needing to add an extra steel, YMMV.

BTW, do not use synthetic motor oil.

[Radioguylogs]

Gabe, T.C. and Phil:

I'm listening intently to the advice and I appreciate it.

This job has been so easy (famous last words) that I'm not afraid to go back in after 20k miles or more.

I might listen to advice about replacing the springs, even though they are in spec, but I'm not thinking I would choose the Barnett's. Maybe you'll hear me whining about my (potentially poor) choice two years from now.

I will probably learn some lessons the hard way, but please keep up with your good advice and experience.

[WMarshy]

I might possibly be the only person who has ever experienced this issue but you should be aware that the 6 bolts that hold the star plate on can strech and fail. I found my bolts had streched and almost snapped off when I replaced my clutch disks. Went to torque them up to spec and felt the one bolt start to give. Took them all out and replaced them with high grade bolts. Its possible that the PO over torqued them at one point or could be all the tension from shimming the springs with a washer IDK. Just something to look out for... I started this thread a long time ago... http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...Fatigued+bolts

I guess what Im suggesting is replace them now while your in there rather than hope they hold another 30-50K miles.

[D0wn5h1ft]

If you want to replace bolts, as mentioned above, make sure you go with high grade bolts as he suggested. I made the mistake of putting some poopy nuts in my head as a replacement for the cam bearing cam nuts and when I went to torque them down the damn threads ripped right out of them! Here is a guide:

http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-in...ade-chart.aspx

Home depot also does a good job of labeling bolt grades. They don't always have the little chart that explains them but if you know what you're looking for the information is available.

[Radioguylogs]

I'll be inspecting the bolts after what I saw from WMarshy.
Thanks.

[Radioguylogs]

Clutchful!

Case closed.

I put the clutch back together last Friday night and Saturday.

I actually got to ride it Saturday to see if there were any other problems before I begin chasing the high idle. Even though I didn't push it at all, I was really surprised how quick it is- squirrelly fast. I'm afraid my other girls are going to be jealous before this is over.

The clutch works great!

Footnote about the clutch: Those brown spots on the plates (not the friction plates) turned out to be rust. I was surprised it occurred in the 'sealed' areas covered by the friction material, but not on the open areas. The only explanation I could think was that the gasoil might have alcohol in it that decomposed into water?

Thanks for the help I received, and I'll be needing some experienced help with a few questions about my high idle- I'll start a separate post for that issue.