Middle drive problem.

[Crooked_Fender]

So I picked up an 81 special and as I was going through it I decided to change the oil in the middle and final gears. Took out the bolts on the middle and the danged thing would not come out for the life of me. Rapped on it a few times with a block of wood and hammer, still nothing. Managed to tap a very slim jimmy bar in the crease. As I was tapping it along, trying to break it free, this hard green gasket material was chipping out. Got further and then gear oil started pouring out from the bottom seam. That's where I stopped. Haven't heard of this happening before, & by all accounts removing the middle drive is supposed to be a relatively simple process. It took me an hour to get this far & I still don't have it out. It's stuck hard. Has anyone come across this before? If so, what was your solution? Thanks in advance.

[Prisoner6]

Hi, Crooked -

Not sure why you are trying to remove the middle drive, if changing the gear oil is your goal.

There is no need to remove the drive ... first loosen and remove the filler bolt, then remove the drain bolt ... drain and refill.

[Crooked_Fender]

The oil change was the impetus, but I really just wanted to give everything a once over. I've never removed a middle drive before, so thought I'd give it a try. Now I'm more concerned about the oil pouring out & the fact that I cant get the f'ing thing out.

[motoman]

Hi, Crooked -

Not sure why you are trying to remove the middle drive, if changing the gear oil is your goal.

There is no need to remove the drive ... first loosen and remove the filler bolt, then remove the drain bolt ... drain and refill.

+1!........that was definitely a 'whoops'. If not sure, ask here first!
The only dumb question.....was the one that DIDN'T get asked.
Lesson learned........I hope.

[BA80]

It's normal for the gear oil to gush out if you didn't drain it first Crook. (LOL...couldn't resist that)

How many bolts did you take out?

[Crooked_Fender]

Six bolts removed. What/where is the drain plug? My middle doesn't have a drain plug like the rear. Is one of the bolts on the housing doubling as a drain plug? It's normal for oil to gush out from the space between the gear case and engine? I thought it was a sealed system. Hmmm...

[BA80]

The drain plug is back just in front of the swing arm. It looks just like the oil drain plug. It's actually not in the middle drive proper, it's in the case.

There are 7 bolts. The bottom bolt in that chrome cover goes all the way through to the case. Your not the first one to make that mistake my friend. That's why I asked.

[CaptonZap]

Six bolts removed. What/where is the drain plug? My middle doesn't have a drain plug like the rear. Is one of the bolts on the housing doubling as a drain plug? It's normal for oil to gush out from the space between the gear case and engine? I thought it was a sealed system. Hmmm...

http://http://www.ringler.us/xs1100/...riveManual.pdf

The manual isn't clear on the Mid drive drain plug, and it is not visable from normal perspective. You have to get your head or a mirror under the engine case about 3 inches to the right of the mid drive /engine case seam, and in line with the mid drive center line. There is a drain plg up in a cavity up in there. That, and one of the mid drive cover bolts will drain all the oil out.

[CaptonZap]

Well, I better not let it go at that.
Taking the mid drive cover off opens up a bag of worms. If you stop there, you can keep the worms inside.
The cover should come off if all of the hex socket bolts are removed. Inside you will see a shaft and nut, and a 6 mm thick, (approx) flange still in the case. THAT, is a booger to get out, since it is the outer bearing support, and has an O ring seal on it, and will resist removal. A better method is to remove the mid drive, and press the shaft , with the bearing support and gear, out from the other (clutch) side.
Consult figure 6-1 and it will show the order of things. If you have removed the U-joint, and all of the cover bolts, you can smack the drive with a plastic mallet and break the seal between the case and drive housing. The mid drive will then come out the left side, leaving you with a stream of oil running down the engine case all over the space ahead of the swing arm cross shaft. (Put a pan under there before you get too far). You can also see the cavity that the drain plug drains, as it will be inside and to the rear of the hole that the mid drive comes out of. Since you are this far, clean out the bottom of the cavity, it is the sump and will have a bunch of nasty sludge in the bottom of it, that is if you are the first person to see in there since the factory guy put it together.
I realize you guys are gung ho, and want to get on with the job, but you could do yourself and the rapidly dwindling number of PO unmolested parts a favor by getting a manual before attacking these sorts of jobs.
On the bright side, kudos to you for wishing to check things out. You might save further degradation by finding something that needs fixing. The mid drives are highly stressed, and if not kept in clean oil, start whining like a girl friend after you have spent a week in the garage working on the bike.
Good luck with your continuing education.
CZ

[motoman]

As previously stated, just remember to remove the fill plug FIRST!..........before removing the drain. You very well may have to 'argue' with the fill plug getting it to pop loose.

[BA80]

Well, I better not let it go at that.
Taking the mid drive cover off opens up a bag of worms. If you stop there, you can keep the worms inside.
The cover should come off if all of the hex socket bolts are removed. Inside you will see a shaft and nut, and a 6 mm thick, (approx) flange still in the case. THAT, is a booger to get out, since it is the outer bearing support, and has an O ring seal on it, and will resist removal. A better method is to remove the mid drive, and press the shaft , with the bearing support and gear, out from the other (clutch) side.
Consult figure 6-1 and it will show the order of things. If you have removed the U-joint, and all of the cover bolts, you can smack the drive with a plastic mallet and break the seal between the case and drive housing. The mid drive will then come out the left side, leaving you with a stream of oil running down the engine case all over the space ahead of the swing arm cross shaft. (Put a pan under there before you get too far). You can also see the cavity that the drain plug drains, as it will be inside and to the rear of the hole that the mid drive comes out of. Since you are this far, clean out the bottom of the cavity, it is the sump and will have a bunch of nasty sludge in the bottom of it, that is if you are the first person to see in there since the factory guy put it together.
I realize you guys are gung ho, and want to get on with the job, but you could do yourself and the rapidly dwindling number of PO unmolested parts a favor by getting a manual before attacking these sorts of jobs.
On the bright side, kudos to you for wishing to check things out. You might save further degradation by finding something that needs fixing. The mid drives are highly stressed, and if not kept in clean oil, start whining like a girl friend after you have spent a week in the garage working on the bike.
Good luck with your continuing education.
CZ

GEEZE! It's just 1 BOLT.

[Crooked_Fender]

post of shame

Well, now is the part where I admit to my general dumbassery. I do have a manual, but it was painfully unclear as to the whereabouts of the drain plug. It also said that there were only six bolts to take out to remove the drive. On top of that, I wrongheadedly assumed that the drive was just like the ones we use at my work. They are completely independent sealed units with output/input shafts sticking out of them. That, as you all know & as I soon found out, is not the case here. It honestly never occurred to me that I would have to drain the gear oil from a drain plug on the engine case. Once again I am awed by, and bow to this site and its incredibly knowledgeable contributors. Thank you for your patience & experience.

[BA80]

The manual also says to torque the swing arm pivot bolts to 80 ft. lbs.......................don't do it or you may bend your swing arm. ( It's 80 in. lbs.)

Always check with those of us who have ALREADY made the mistakes.

The only stupid question is the one not asked.

[Prisoner6]

Oil

Regarding the middle gear/final drive ...

Something else the manual won't tell you is to use 75W-140 full synthetic gear oil, which you most definitely should!

You can use conventional gear oil in 80W-90 (or even 85W-90), but the synthetic oil will help the middle gear/final drive run cooler.

(75W-140 synthetic is the equivalent of the 80W-90 dino)

Some here have used Royal Purple synthetic with good results, but personally I prefer to use Redline synthetic.


**On a side note, do not run synthetic oil in the engine.

These bikes are much happier running conventional 20W-50 dino oil ...

[Bonz]

75w-140 synthetic is not the equivalent of 80w-90 Dino oil. By saying that, it implies that 80w-90 is then equal to 75w-140. NOT!

The synthetic can be used as a substitute in our application and is a much superior oil to any Dino oil. But the Dino could not and should not be substituted for synthetic 75w-140 if 75w-140 is specified in an application.

With respect to not using synthetic oil... Running a lighter weight dino oil (15w-40 for example) doesn't give the smoothness IMO of a 20w-50 dino oil, but a synthetic 20w-50 is a commonly available oil in synthetic and a far superior oil vs dino oil at the extremes and in between when it comes down to it. I don't run synthetic in my XS, but I would never say to stay away from it in the proper viscosity! The engines like it just fine.