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  • Starter motor strip

    This has probably been documented before but, since I've done it today, I thought I would post here with some pix.

    I wanted to paint the end cover of the starter motor. On the European bikes, this is black, like the rest of the engine so, since I had to remove the cover, I thought I'd do the entire motor whilst I was at it......

    First, remove the two long cross headed bolts which secure the end cover. It is absolutely essential to use the correct size and profile of cross head screwdriver bit. Too small and it will damage the ends of the bolts. There is the usual bond between steel and alloy and they were very securely stuck. A correctly sized bit, with the starter motor in a vice so that downward pressure can be applied to the bit, makes things easy. I did not use a screw driver but used a ratchet drive from a small socket set..



    The end cover at the gear end then comes off, revealing the planet gears and filthy old grease. There is also a paper type gasket which breaks of course....



    The metal plate with bronze bush then pulls out of the starter body. There are shims behind it which only fit at the end of things..they can't be confused with the other end which is a different diameter... Note the filthy carbon brush assemblies in the starter body...



    The bearing at the gear end can be checks for play by removing the circlip at the end of the splined shaft and taking off the cog..this enables you to grab the shaft and see if there is any play. In this instance, there was none...



    At the other end, the alloy cover comes off easily to reveal a lot of black crud from the brushes.... Check that their is plenty of life le in the brushes themselves. Worn out brushes are very small.....



    The armature, which pulls out of the starter body from the gear end, is dirty and dusty...




    Clean the commutator with fine wet and dry ....



    Gently remove any carbon or dirt from the commutator grooves. I used a snap knife blade...




    Remove gears and clean out all the old grease...



    Clean the brush end with a suitable solvent....carb cleaner or similar...



    Apply fresh grease to the gears.... The blue ink is from using the casing to print onto gasket paper in order to make a new gasket...




    This little tab is important....the inner plate with the bush also has a cut out and the body of the motor has a tab. They need to line up to get the gearbox end back on...



    Use a solvent to clean all the muck out of the carbon brush cover end of things...



    Lightly grease the end of the armature where it goes into the bronze bush.

    The armature goes back into the starter body from the gear end and the carbon brushes need to be pulled back against their springs in order to get the commutator through...



    The carbon brush end goes on last. Make sure the bolt holes both line up as it can fit n with them not aligned.....

    Here's a pic of all the parts..



    And the rebuilt motor.... Complete with freshly painted cover, using Prisone6's recommended enamel.....!




    Last edited by James England; 05-17-2014, 05:09 PM.
    XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

  • #2
    Does anyone know of a replacement for the brushes if need be?

    Granted if someone has spun their starter enough to wear out the brushes there are probably other issues...
    Nathan
    KD9ARL

    μολὼν λαβέ

    1978 XS1100E
    K&N Filter
    #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
    OEM Exhaust
    ATK Fork Brace
    LED Dash lights
    Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

    Green Monster Coils
    SS Brake Lines
    Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

    In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

    Theodore Roosevelt

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by natemoen View Post
      Does anyone know of a replacement for the brushes if need be?

      Granted if someone has spun their starter enough to wear out the brushes there are probably other issues...
      Something tells me they are a standard size and I bet they are available on the net. I bought brushes for a circular saw bench by typing the dimensions. I've also bought oversize and filed them down...
      XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hey James,

        Nice work. I'm surprised you didn't take a nice brass wheel brush and remove the corrosion and such from the actual motor housing....even though it doesn't show since it's covered by a separate cover...knowing your penchant for thorough cleaning/polishing/finishing!

        Secondly......that is nice paint....but don't forget that the starter motor grounds thru it's mounting case.....so you will probably need to remove the new paint from the contact surfaces where that meets the crankcase as well as the bolt heads contact surface also! JAT!

        T.C.
        T. C. Gresham
        81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
        79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
        History shows again and again,
        How nature points out the folly of men!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
          Hey James,

          Nice work. I'm surprised you didn't take a nice brass wheel brush and remove the corrosion and such from the actual motor housing....even though it doesn't show since it's covered by a separate cover...knowing your penchant for thorough cleaning/polishing/finishing!

          Secondly......that is nice paint....but don't forget that the starter motor grounds thru it's mounting case.....so you will probably need to remove the new paint from the contact surfaces where that meets the crankcase as well as the bolt heads contact surface also! JAT!

          T.C.
          Heh heh! I cleaned the housing after looking at the pix! Yes, the paint will need scraping off on each side of each of the mounting lugs. I'm glad you pointed it out though as I'd probably have forgotten...
          XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

          Comment


          • #6
            Brushes are available on ebay

            http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...s1100&_sacat=0

            $10.99 a really good price!
            Bone stock 1980 Special except for the exhaust and crashbars. Oh yeah, and the scabbard for the Winchester Defender.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hey James- What kind of grease do you recommend for the starter?
              1979 XS1100F
              2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

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              • #8
                I just did a "quick" look and clean on a starter for the '79. I used high temp synthetic grease for the bearing surface, and EP molly for the gears. Not sure that is the "correct" grease, but it should last another 35 years....
                Nice write-up, as usual James.
                Ray Matteis
                KE6NHG
                XS1100 E '78 (winter project)
                XS1100 SF Bob Jones worked on it!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DiverRay View Post
                  I just did a "quick" look and clean on a starter for the '79. I used high temp synthetic grease for the bearing surface, and EP molly for the gears. Not sure that is the "correct" grease, but it should last another 35 years....
                  Nice write-up, as usual James.
                  That's what I used. I bet just about any decent grease will do though...
                  XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just wondering, would maintenance of starter fall under periodic maintenance, or don't fix it till its broken category?

                    By any chance, do you have pics of removing starter from the engine part....
                    Nick

                    1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

                    1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

                    1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)

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                    • #11
                      Starter for me fell in the "I'm there, do it" stage. To remove the starter, disconnect the battery negative cable, remove three bolts holding plastic cover over starter, remove 10mm nut holding cable onto starter, and work the starter out to the Left of the bike, and up.
                      It may take 10 minutes the first time...
                      Ray Matteis
                      KE6NHG
                      XS1100 E '78 (winter project)
                      XS1100 SF Bob Jones worked on it!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mikubuilder View Post
                        Just wondering, would maintenance of starter fall under periodic maintenance, or don't fix it till its broken category?
                        I'd feel confident leaving it for 15 years after servicing it- unless it makes noise or doesn't work.
                        -Mike
                        _________
                        '79 XS1100SF 20k miles
                        '80 XS1100SG 44k miles
                        '81 XS1100H Venturer 35k miles
                        '79 XS750SF 17k miles
                        '85 Honda V65 Magna ~7k miles
                        '84 Honda V65 Magna 48k miles (parts bike)
                        '86 Yamaha VMAX 9k miles

                        Previous: '68 Motoguzzi 600cc + '79 XS750SF 22k miles +'84 Honda V65

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Great write up and how to

                          I bought a 'spare' starter motor, mainly because it was a cheap, big, DC motor and 'just in case' I needed spare parts for one of mine. I think I'll just do the tear down and rebuild and replace the one in my Special with it.

                          My starter did stop working but I originally attributed it to the starter button self destructing and falling out on the handlebar switch. I did become acquainted with kicking over an 1100 motor, somewhat larger than my 850 but it fired off on the first kick every time.
                          79 SF & 80 LG MNS
                          73 & 74 RD 350's
                          73 Honda CL 450
                          Graveyard - '81 XS850 Special

                          All of my bikes are projects, maybe one day I'll have them running.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No, I wouldn't class this as regular maintenance...more a one off which has probably never ever been done on the vast majority of bikes. Once done, I suspect that will be it for the next decade or more.

                            However, the length of the carbon brushes is important. If for some reason they are worn down to little stumps, then they need replacing. There's a regular ball bearing at the output end of the motor and this is easily replaced if needs be but I personally have never found one to need it.

                            One more thing.... If for some reason someone decides to remove the coils from inside the starter motor casing, take great care when unscrewing the bolt and nut which the starter electrical cable runs to. It is easy to get a spanner on the nut which locks the small bolt in place on the casing (this little bolt takes the cable and nut) and twist the bolt assembly round, thereby ripping off the connection from the coils themselves inside the casing.

                            Realistically, if the internal coils are no good, the whole starter motor would be a cheaper to replace, so it's rarely necessary to remove them anyway.

                            I think many starter motor problems are caused by carbon dust from the brushes, general filth and gunging up of the commutator grooves.

                            By the way, it's easy to test a motor by using a 12v battery charger but make sure the motor is securely held in a vice when testing it. I use my hand because I know what to expect but there's a lot of torque there which is potentially dangerous when the motor fires up....the entire motor tries to spin rather than the central shaft! Easily capable of breaking one's wrist
                            XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.

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