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  • #1

    Cam Gears Install Question

    I had 2 valves that were on the low end of the clearance tolerance so I swapped out shims, following the tech tip http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35434

    I'm not understanding what this means...
    Note the little 'points' by the second pair of bolt holes......as shown in close-up here. These holes must be on the same 'side' of the cam as the dots or your cam timing will be off.
    When my dots lined up with the marks like so --
    [IMG][/IMG]


    --the bolt holes WITHOUT the little points were at the top of the cam gears like this --[IMG][/IMG]

    Bending a valve is not my goal but don't I just put the gears back on the same way they were when I took them off? I've never had them off before and the bike ran fine so I'm assuming it must have been right? This statement is what has me confused:
    These holes must be on the same 'side' of the cam as the dots or your cam timing will be off.
    Can somebody clear this up for me please?

    Oh, one other question. I popped out the other 6 shims that didn't need swapping just to record the sizes so I'll know what's there already for the next time I need to do this. Would all 4 intake shims and all 4 exhaust shims have been the same size originally when the bike was made? Just curious because mine varied from 275 to 310. With over 34K on the bike I'm sure somebody has done this before.
    Billy

    1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets
    Tags: None
  • #2
    You see the raised or outlines around the bolt holes on the gear and the one with the "point" pointing up?

    That has to be facing the side (or end) of the cam with the alignment dots. The holes are slightly offset to one side and if the gear is installed the wrong way it throws the cam timing off.

    Let me go out and look at the cams I have out and be sure what I just posted is true.
    Last edited by BA80; 04-16-2014, 06:35 PM.
    Greg

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

    ― Albert Einstein

    80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

    The list changes.

    Comment

    • #3
      Correction.....the side with the little arrow goes on the OPPOSITE side from the dot but goes in the bolt hole that lines up the closest to the dots.

      Clear as mud?
      Greg

      Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

      ― Albert Einstein

      80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

      The list changes.

      Comment

      • #4
        Hey Greg and Billy,

        Regrettably this photo he posted in the tech tip doesn't show the sprocket teeth on the bottom where his thumb is. But Billy if you look closely as the top end, you can see that the little nipple pattern around the bolt hole is NOT in the center of the sprocket teeth notch. I think part of the terminology problem is what is being said about the sprocket's position. I don't think the nipple END of the sprocket needs to line up with the cam alignment dots....but just that the side of the sprocket that you can see the nipple pattern needs to be facing the direction of the cam alignment dot. Think about it, you could flip the sprocket around so that the nipple was facing away from this view in the photo....and the position of the sprocket teeth would be a few degrees different in rotation position which could/would place/position the cam a few degrees out of time with the crank.



        I remember taking the sprockets off of my cams when I did my top end job, and I didn't KNOW about the nipples, and so I don't KNOW if mine are in the correct position or not? But I've run it for 10 years and 10+K miles, and haven't blown up the motor. SO...having the sprocket flipped around wouldn't necessarily cause a bent valve, but could reduce the overall performance, fuel mileage/power of the engine.

        Hopefully Greg will be able to confirm whether his nipples are in the same position location as the alignment dots, or maybe they are not, but are at least FACING the part of the cam that has the alignment dots !?

        T.C.
        T. C. Gresham
        81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
        79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
        History shows again and again,
        How nature points out the folly of men!

        Comment

        • #5
          Yeah, I wasn't sure either but I have 2 heads on the shelf out there that have not had the cams or gears removed since I took them off. The engines are seized and I just cut the chain to remove them.

          What I posted the second time is correct.
          Greg

          Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

          ― Albert Einstein

          80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

          The list changes.

          Comment

          • #6
            Okay, what Greg said in his last post. I just RE-Looked at the photos....they were a little confusing, because one view of the sprocket is from the side of the cam dots,



            this other view is from the OTHER SIDE of the sprocket away from the cam dots...but on the side that you can see the nipples! SO....the nipples DO face AWAY from the end of the cam that has the alignment dots.

            BUT, the tech tip says to first see the alignment dots....THEN rotate the cam 180 degrees so you don't see the dots and remove those sprocket bolts....Then he says rotate the cam again so you can AGAIN see the alignment dots, and THEN he shows the sprockets and the nipples....so and states about the nipples aligning with the same position as the alignment dots.

            Looks like Steve might need to edit the tip with some clarification notations!?

            T.C.
            T. C. Gresham
            81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
            79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
            History shows again and again,
            How nature points out the folly of men!

            Comment

            • #7
              Too Late

              It is too late now, but there is no need to take the cam gears loose to adjust the valves. IMHO it is more (unnecessary) work.

              Taking the gears loose is reserved for cam swap, valve job, or timing chain replacement.

              My 2 cents.

              Mike
              1981 XS1100H Venturer
              K&N Air Filter
              ACCT
              Custom Paint by Deitz
              Geezer Rectifier/Regulator
              Chacal Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines
              Chrome Front Rotor & Caliper Covers
              Stebel Nautilus Horn
              EBC Front Rotors
              Limie Accent Moves On In 2015

              Mike

              Comment

              • #8
                I agree Mike. I personally don't see a good reason for even loosening the cams, but that's just me. I've never had a problem with the tool.

                Maybe if ALL the shims needed to be changed but not the normal 1 or 2.
                Greg

                Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                ― Albert Einstein

                80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                The list changes.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Agree

                  Originally posted by BA80 View Post
                  I agree Mike. I personally don't see a good reason for even loosening the cams, but that's just me. I've never had a problem with the tool.

                  Maybe if ALL the shims needed to be changed but not the normal 1 or 2.
                  I've done several with the special tool. It just takes patience and a supply of shims to adjust the valves. There aren't any short cuts.
                  1981 XS1100H Venturer
                  K&N Air Filter
                  ACCT
                  Custom Paint by Deitz
                  Geezer Rectifier/Regulator
                  Chacal Stainless Steel Braided Brake Lines
                  Chrome Front Rotor & Caliper Covers
                  Stebel Nautilus Horn
                  EBC Front Rotors
                  Limie Accent Moves On In 2015

                  Mike

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    I had my gears on wrong when I pit my head together and I had piston/valve contact. Didn't damage anything since I was rotating by hand though.
                    Nathan
                    KD9ARL

                    μολὼν λαβέ

                    1978 XS1100E
                    K&N Filter
                    #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                    OEM Exhaust
                    ATK Fork Brace
                    LED Dash lights
                    Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters
                    Green Monster Coils
                    SS Brake Lines
                    Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                    In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                    Theodore Roosevelt

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I didn't have the tool so I guess I did it the hard way, I won't make that mistake again.
                      But back to the gears...when I had the crank on "T" the cam dots lined up with the marks as I'm standing on the left side of the bike. When I look from the right side of the bike I see the gears and bolt holes without the nipples. So with the cams in this position, the dots are visible on the top side of the cam but the holes with the nipples are near the bottom of the gears down inside the head and are not visible. The only other way to install the gears would be to rotate them 180 degrees to bring the nipple holes up to the top of the gears so they are visible at the same time as the dots are. So if I'm understanding you, you should never be able to see both the dots and holes with nipples at the same time, when one is up the other should be down...Correct??
                      Billy

                      1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BillyRok View Post
                        So if I'm understanding you, you should never be able to see both the dots and holes with nipples at the same time, when one is up the other should be down...Correct??
                        No, you should see both the dots and the holes with the nipples at the same time.

                        You need to unbolt the cam gears and rotate them 180 degrees so that the nipples are up when the dots are up.
                        Nathan
                        KD9ARL

                        μολὼν λαβέ

                        1978 XS1100E
                        K&N Filter
                        #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                        OEM Exhaust
                        ATK Fork Brace
                        LED Dash lights
                        Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters
                        Green Monster Coils
                        SS Brake Lines
                        Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                        In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                        Theodore Roosevelt

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Nate if you look at he pics I first posted you can see dots on top and holes without nipples on top. That is the way it was when I took the valve cover off. Are you telling me that the cam gears have been on the cams 180 degrees off from where they are supposed to be??? The bike would still run that way?
                          Billy

                          1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Ok Billy......pictures......


                            With the timing dots lined up......



                            The other side of the gears should look like this.....

                            Greg

                            Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

                            ― Albert Einstein

                            80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

                            The list changes.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BillyRok View Post
                              Nate if you look at he pics I first posted you can see dots on top and holes without nipples on top. That is the way it was when I took the valve cover off. Are you telling me that the cam gears have been on the cams 180 degrees off from where they are supposed to be??? The bike would still run that way?
                              Yes, I am telling you that the gears were on wrong before.
                              Nathan
                              KD9ARL

                              μολὼν λαβέ

                              1978 XS1100E
                              K&N Filter
                              #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                              OEM Exhaust
                              ATK Fork Brace
                              LED Dash lights
                              Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters
                              Green Monster Coils
                              SS Brake Lines
                              Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                              In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                              Theodore Roosevelt

                              Comment

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