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Need Advice/Help with 1980 Carb Rebuild

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  • Need Advice/Help with 1980 Carb Rebuild

    This weekend I decided to finally take out those mixture screws that everyone has been telling me to do and it could not have gone worse. #1 and #4 were stuck and I ended up with a broken off extractor in both (last time I use a RH drill bit on a screw). Long story, short I have a junk set of carb bodies now and I'm going off to pick up a new set to cobble together a new set out of the two. I wouldn't give up on these carbs unless I absolutely know that can't be saved but the aluminum body are the screw is toast. The extractor metal is just too hard to be drilled out with exploding the little tunnel. I might send them off to a machine shop to see if I can salvage one of the bodies and chase it with a tap but we'll see.

    On to the present. Unfortunately, I can't find a set of early model carbs that are within my price range so I'm stuck with buying another set of late models. My question is can I get away with not trying to pull these d@mn mixture screws? I would really like to avoid the fiasco I just had to go through.

    If pulling them is a necessity, how do I avoid the problems I had before. The first thing was using the "drill a hole in the plug and stick a screw in" actually breaks the aluminum tunnel that is sits in. I'm very particular and having cracked/broken bodies is not an option. The second problem was the screws being seized in place and having the flat head slot destroyed trying to pull them out. The third (and I think I already figured this one out) is how to remove screws that are frozen in place. I guess using a left handed drill bit for the extractor pilot hole in the first place would have helped but if I break another extractor I can't guarantee I won't set my bike on fire.

    Is pulling those screws really THAT important?

    Also, what is this fuss I've been hearing from everyone about replacing the butterfly seals? I ordered some new ones from MikesXS but I keep hearing about how hard it is to remove the screws holding them in place. On the set I have now I just took a screw driver to them and they all came out without too much fuss. The flattened end didn't put up a fight once it hit the threads on the shaft, it just got bent back with no problem.
    78 E - 2to1 exhaust, dynatek coils, special headlight [SOLD!]
    79 F - gas tank refurb, headgasket change, straight pipes, late model carbs, virago lowering shocks, special headlight and gauges, TC fuse block, GSXR-1100 carbs (WIP)


    "May my tires not fail me, nor my engine grow cold"

  • #2
    Why not post in the Wanted section for the carbs?
    1979 XS1100F
    2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by IanDMacDonald View Post
      Why not post in the Wanted section for the carbs?
      Already did...
      78 E - 2to1 exhaust, dynatek coils, special headlight [SOLD!]
      79 F - gas tank refurb, headgasket change, straight pipes, late model carbs, virago lowering shocks, special headlight and gauges, TC fuse block, GSXR-1100 carbs (WIP)


      "May my tires not fail me, nor my engine grow cold"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by D0wn5h1ft View Post
        ...Is pulling those screws really THAT important?
        Unfortunately, it is. Gunk in these will have you chasing your tail with tuning issues.

        As far as getting them out, I prefer the heat method. Apply heat to the carb body (and don't go overboard; 250 degrees is plenty), use PB Blaster, and a sharp screwdriver. Using one that's worn/rounded at all will almost guarantee that you'll strip the pilot jets.

        If you do strip them, drill them out rather than use an extractor (yeah, I've got several bodies floating around with broken extractors in them too...). Don't drill freehand, use a drill press to make sure the hole stays straight. The thread on the jet is a standard metric (don't recall the size, but my metric tap set has it) so if you drill you can chase the threads. The main caution while tapping is don't run the tap in too far or you can damage the seat at the bottom of the hole.

        Good luck!
        Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

        '78E original owner - resto project
        '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
        '82 XJ rebuild project
        '80SG restified, red SOLD
        '79F parts...
        '81H more parts...

        Other current bikes:
        '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
        '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
        '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
        Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
        Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

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        • #5
          A battle I know all to well. My first set of carbs I had the same thing happen, broken extractor in the mix screw. Took mine to a machine shop, the milled it out to just under the minor dia of the threads. That let me get a s/s screw behind what was left and get it to peel out.

          As for the covers, had the same thing happen to me, cracked tower. Drill them out, gradually larger sizes, it will just spin out eventually.

          I highly recommend spraying the screws, jets, anything in or on the carbs with PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench BEFORE trying to remove them. If they still stick, use heat on the tower. I put PB Blaster in the tower and heat it till it smokes. If you strip the slot, then use a dremel to cut the slot deeper.
          Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

          When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

          81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
          80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


          Previously owned
          93 GSX600F
          80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
          81 XS1100 Special
          81 CB750 C
          80 CB750 C
          78 XS750

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DGXSER View Post
            A battle I know all to well. My first set of carbs I had the same thing happen, broken extractor in the mix screw. Took mine to a machine shop, the milled it out to just under the minor dia of the threads. That let me get a s/s screw behind what was left and get it to peel out.

            As for the covers, had the same thing happen to me, cracked tower. Drill them out, gradually larger sizes, it will just spin out eventually.

            I highly recommend spraying the screws, jets, anything in or on the carbs with PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench BEFORE trying to remove them. If they still stick, use heat on the tower. I put PB Blaster in the tower and heat it till it smokes. If you strip the slot, then use a dremel to cut the slot deeper.
            Well, it looks like I'll be taking a trip to my campus machine shop tonight then. I have a couple 2x4's sitting around that I was going to place on either side of the body square with the in/out side of the venturi and then clamp the two together. Is that how everyone else is stabilizing their carbs on the press?
            78 E - 2to1 exhaust, dynatek coils, special headlight [SOLD!]
            79 F - gas tank refurb, headgasket change, straight pipes, late model carbs, virago lowering shocks, special headlight and gauges, TC fuse block, GSXR-1100 carbs (WIP)


            "May my tires not fail me, nor my engine grow cold"

            Comment


            • #7
              Picked up the new carbs and successfully drilled out the caps! But for every success their has to be at least one failure of equal and opposite magnitude. Carb body #1 didn't survive the procedure of removing the butterfly because I decided to act like an ape and not realize that it just slides right out if you're patient and don't hit it with a hammer... Good news is the new #1 carb body is in the mail and should be here soon.




              78 E - 2to1 exhaust, dynatek coils, special headlight [SOLD!]
              79 F - gas tank refurb, headgasket change, straight pipes, late model carbs, virago lowering shocks, special headlight and gauges, TC fuse block, GSXR-1100 carbs (WIP)


              "May my tires not fail me, nor my engine grow cold"

              Comment


              • #8
                So I guess as luck would have it, number one form your original set is also one with a busted tower or an extractor in its mix screw. That Murphy guy is a REAL PITA.
                Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

                When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

                81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
                80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


                Previously owned
                93 GSX600F
                80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
                81 XS1100 Special
                81 CB750 C
                80 CB750 C
                78 XS750

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DGXSER View Post
                  So I guess as luck would have it, number one form your original set is also one with a busted tower or an extractor in its mix screw. That Murphy guy is a REAL PITA.
                  Yep, imagine that...pouring some more cash in to fill up the money pit.
                  78 E - 2to1 exhaust, dynatek coils, special headlight [SOLD!]
                  79 F - gas tank refurb, headgasket change, straight pipes, late model carbs, virago lowering shocks, special headlight and gauges, TC fuse block, GSXR-1100 carbs (WIP)


                  "May my tires not fail me, nor my engine grow cold"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have not experience with butterfly seals from Mike's XS. Their rubber bits are notorious for being second rate. Those seals are available OEM. As much fun as they are to replace, that's what I did.
                    Marty (in Mississippi)
                    XS1100SG
                    XS650SK
                    XS650SH
                    XS650G
                    XS6502F
                    XS650E

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jetmechmarty View Post
                      I have not experience with butterfly seals from Mike's XS. Their rubber bits are notorious for being second rate. Those seals are available OEM. As much fun as they are to replace, that's what I did.
                      Yep, what he ^ said
                      1980 XS1100G "Dolly G" Full Dresser (with a coat of many colors )
                      1979 XS1100SF (stock-euro mods planned)
                      1984 XV700L Virago (to be hot-modded)
                      1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim (semi-restored DD)
                      1977 XS650D ( patiently awaiting resto)

                      Sometimes it takes a whole tank of gas before you can think straight.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Before you completely give up on all your carb bodies with broken-off extractors in them, pick up some small diamond burrs for using in a dremel tool. It is a slow process, but with a bit of patience, the diamond burrs will grind out the hard extractor. Keep the grinding well lubricated to control heat build-up as heat is what will kill the diamond grit. If you can, flood the tunnel with cutting oil or even water, anything to keep the working face wet and cool.



                        You can also use these burrs to grind a new slot in those brass screws

                        If you have a few minutes, use the search tool, perform an 'advanced search' and look for the key words diamond and dremel in postings from me. You may (or may not) get some satisfaction knowing you're not the first person who has had this happen to them.
                        Ken Talbot

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                        • #13
                          You could also cut the tunnel down that the idle screw is down in.
                          Nathan
                          KD9ARL

                          μολὼν λαβέ

                          1978 XS1100E
                          K&N Filter
                          #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                          OEM Exhaust
                          ATK Fork Brace
                          LED Dash lights
                          Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

                          Green Monster Coils
                          SS Brake Lines
                          Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                          In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                          Theodore Roosevelt

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                          • #14
                            That is not a bad idea. ..if you are lucky, there might be enough of extractor sticking out to grab it with needle nose pliers. .
                            Nick

                            1979 XS11 F,Yamaha fairings w/hard bags, TC's fuse box, K&N air filter

                            1982 Virago 750 (it's alive!)

                            1979 XS 11 F, Windjammer IV, Samsonite luggage cases(another rescue)

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