The Difference Between Success and Failure

[D0wn5h1ft]

As some of you already know, I'm looking to bob the fender on my '79F and throw on a solo seat. I have been warned in the past about this bike looking stupid when you shorten the frame at all so I'm going to ask some of the frame geometry guys what makes these two frame setups look so completely different:

The Good:



The Bad and Ugly:



Yes, I know the second picture is just fugly because the seat is awful, etc, etc but I'm looking at the bike geometry and the first picture just looks so much better than the second. Long story short, I'm trying to clone the bike in the first picture and I can't figure out what makes the shape look so good. Did he lower something? I don't think there's any more rake...

Any ideas? I don't really have an eye for this sort of stuff yet.

[jetmechmarty]

This is how to do it.

[Schming]

Yep, first pic is lowered as you can see the forks sticking out of the top TT and swing arm is just about level.
The handlebar change blends better also.
IMHO both seats are crap and don't add anything to the look let alone function, and fenderless front or rear,take your pick, is stupid.

I have a hard time accepting the idea of taking a rather large muscle bike and shrinking it to fit, the 650's work way better for these kinds of mods.

[Schming]

This is how to do it.

Nah, this is

[jetmechmarty]

Good as well. Bikes built for different purposes. One will take you for a little ride, the other will take you as far as you care to go. The first one came from South Florida to North Carolina where the photo was taken. I've never seen the latter sort show up at an XS11 event. I'll put that out there as a challenge.

[trbig]

This was Montreaxblue's first XS... one of the only bobbers I thought looked decent. Probably the fastest XS I've ridden with, but it helped that he weighed @ a buck fifty soaking wet. Speaking of soaking wet, that thing would give him a nice skunk stripe up his back when he rode in the rain. I wonder what happened to it after he sold it? Was always hoping they'd pop on here at some point.






Just saw it's now been 3 years as of the 22nd since he died. Still miss the little fart... Heck of a good guy.

[paulapalooza]

Here are a couple examples that I think worked out well (of course I'm partial because one is mine and the other is my good buddies). The black one is a 79 special and the copper one is a 78 std, both with XJ1100 tanks of course. The black one is a little more conservative with no modification to the frame except for the rear rails, while the copper one has the seat rails cut to lower the seat (losing the ability to use stock side covers) and the rear frame rails completely removed. The black one is mine and I wanted to ride it a lot so I left the frame stock fairly stock. I made the seat for both of them, and although I think the concept is there, I have not learned to sew yet and can't make a nice cover myself.

Anyway, here are a few pictures showing the bikes stripped down and a few that show them loaded up for our round trip from Calgary, AB Canada to Sturgis (roughly 4500 km). Hopefully this shows that they can be modified and still ridden long distances (albeit kicking and screaming at some points). Sorry for the lower quality photos.

[natemoen]

Personally I feel that the no fender bikes look terrible and just unfinished. The 2 with the fenders look much better.

[motoman]

Personally I feel that the no fender bikes look terrible and just unfinished. The 2 with the fenders look much better.

+1 That black one shown loaded with gear would look super if finished with XJ slip-on exhaust, but rear peg mount isn't correct for the upswept pipes.

[D0wn5h1ft]

Personally I feel that the no fender bikes look terrible and just unfinished. The 2 with the fenders look much better.

Never had any intention of taking off the fender, sorry for not posting the other pics of his bike. Someone before told me to go out and by a generic custom fender and bob it myself rather than tearing up an original that has a bunch of holes in it.



I mean I think his bike looks really good but I guess that's why they call them opinions...I see bikes this like this:



And yeah it probably won't take you across the country without asking for something in return but IMO you can't beat the looks. That said, I guess the consensus is that it's been lowered both front and rear? The bike that trbig linked looks like it good benefit from a lowering in the front too (maybe?). I heard about using Virago XV1100 shocks to lower it an inch because they're 11.5 in stead of 12.5, is that still a choice?

[Orange4]

I''m not a fan of most inline 4 bobbers but I've seen a few cool ones. I'll give you my input anyway because at least it might look less unappealing.

They have a lot of visual weight and height and width at the front which looks goofy if there is just a little puny looking wheel tucked in so close at the back. They look too stubby lenthwise. The fancy twin in the woods looks long and sleek.

Bobbing a XS standard is especially difficult because the tank is so huge and tall and it's a cafe style with the cut outs as well. The minute you switch to a special tank, which was designed to look like a cruiser chopper tank and you eliminate a big part of the problem.

The xs standard is very high at the front. Then you have the frame under the seat which is also relatively high but the rear wheel looks super low without a fender, so you end up with a very stepped look. The solution a lot of guys use is a flat seat to lower the riding position but behind the giant tank you again end up with a half Cafe look but without the rear seat fairing to add mass and height.

Point form:
-Lower the front and the rear to get the engine / frame mass closer to the wheels
-Special tank
-Medium bob rear fender with some mass to counter the mass at the front.
-Get that seat nice and low.
-If you can, chop the frame under the seat to get it in lower.
-Flat black paint looks sloppy and cheap.
-Put some colour, paint, pinstripes, chrome or interesting metal in there somewhere. You're not batman, you are D0wn5h1ft! You have an identity.

Rock on.

[LoHo]

I think the key is the tank. The standard tank curves down so sharply at the mount that unless the seat is there to pick up the curve and flow it rearward, it makes the eye stop and makes the bike look cobbled together, rather than built. A longer frame can get away with the wasp look (discrete tank, then seat), but close together they look forced. My personal opinion is that the XS frame is too high to look good as a bobber unless one lowers both ends at the expense of rideablity. As it is, it takes a lot of work to get the tank to flow into the seat and then the rear wheel. That's why the fender bikes look better; there isn't a visual cliff from the seat to the rear wheel. Fenders also give one something to do with those rear frames we have to keep for shock attachment.

Most will find that the Specials and XJs make better bobbers than the Standards because it is easier to make a visual triangle out of them than it is with the visual square that standards are.

[trbig]

Hey, I forgot about this bobber. Scott (Da-bubble) built a nice one.

[natemoen]

Even with that fender there, it still looks unfinished. With all those holes in the fender looks like it is missing something. With the frame rails like that, it sort of looks half-a***d and not well thought out. With the seat not fitting right it again looks poorly thought out.

Doing a good job of this style bikes takes a good bit of skill and planning. That second bike you posted a pic of is planed from the ground up. Most can't do that level of building and even less can afford it!

[TomB]

With the seat not fitting right it again looks poorly thought out.

With that thing parked next to it, the XS's new seat looks positively factory fitted!! WTF!!